Eating Spice + MAOI vs. Eating Spice AFTER MAOI

[Brennendes Wasser]

Hello Guys!

I recently saw a discussion where people told that a Pharma Trip is much stronger / better when the Spice is eaten directly along with the MAOI - with no waiting time in between.


So I just want to make a short question:

Has anyone also recognized this effect and can anyone contribute to the question, if this is better or not ?



I may also do some testing soon, but I'm quite interested into other opinions.


Just by plain thinking about it, it sounds simply strange, that it should be better to eat everything at once ... as the MAOI will at least take a LITTLE TIME to inactivate the Monoamine-oxidase enzymes, so eating everything at once should definetly make some Spice getting destroyed by active enzymes, shouldn't it ?

THXXX

 

[Jees]

The controversy is historically and camps remain divided.

I'd suggest take 100mg harmalas 1.5 - 2 hours in advance, then take your regular dose what you supposed to take. For a non harmala heavy trip then 200 mg harmalas seems to suffice to activate the amount of deems you choose.

PS: numbers for non separated rue extract (harmine+harmaline mix).

 

[tregar]

All at once camp here: As far as Ayahuasca is concerned, having dreamed over 55 times, in the beginning I would drink the caapi first, then the leaf brew 15 to 20 minutes later, it was hit and miss for me, then switched to drinking all at the exact same time, mixed together, always on an empty stomach, worked beautifully every time, very powerful and potent. Note that Jonathan Ott in his book "Pharmahuasca" always mixed his components all together in one single capsule, taking all at the same time, he noted great results as well. The Shamans take one single drink all at once, they never seperate the two. He also noted that he would eat very little the day of the experiment. I have found works best about 5 hours after having eating a meal. Any food in the stomach can lead to a disappointment. 69ron was a big believer in taking all at the same time as well, duplicating the way the Shamans dreamed the brew. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents having tried both ways, and found what works for me the best. Should any of the active light get trapped, I would simply eat a small slice of fattening cream cheese one hour later to activate the gall bladder, and kick the journey into full gear.

Like Jees mentions, consuming caapi or harmalas a couple hours earlier reminds me of the few times I have done this, then consumed the actual full brew 2 hours later, this can result in very powerful caapi heavy visions (but also the possibility for increased nausea) that would last around 6 hours for me, often well into the night, even seeing visions before trailing off to sleep...far away places and people and historical events, future and present scenes, very powerful all being brightened by the leaf or light. I would only did this a few times as it is more often for advanced users. I was not able to move around much, but my gosh with closed eyes, the visions were unbelievable and breath taking...very realistic and just like you read in the book "Antipodes of the Mind"....the teacher Caapi really takes over and shows you so very much. If you do this, you really want to keep your light or leaf portion low to medium on your actual full brew 2 hours later, or it will be too easy to throw it all up if you use an excessive amount of light. When I would do this, I would only take 1/2 of the dose of caapi I would normally take at 3pm, then at 5pm, take the full dose caapi + leaf for an amazing very long lasting journey.

 

[tregar]

What was really remarkable was that the caapi allowed one with high doses (with hawaiian psychotria leaf of course) to enter the realm of fantasy and create colorful cartoon-like visuals and visions (with impossible resolution so incredibly far beyond even 8k hdtv) that totally blew the mind...I have never seen anything so beautiful in all my life for that hour and a half. It's a state that is extremely creative yet enhanced by the divine. I still think about it often to this day. A state of creative perfection. An artist dream come true. The impossible becomes possible. For this to work for me, I had to dream 1/2 a caapi dose a couple hours early, then dream the full brew. The places it takes you are fantasy derived if you allow it to be as such. Dr. Naranjo had a term for this special state "Oneirophrenia" which is different from your everyday normal psychedelic experience, and said this was only typical of ibogaine or high doses of the harmalas. I guarantee if you ever enter that state, you will never forget it for the rest of your life.

Claudio Naranjo, M.D. from "Psycotherapeutic Possibilities of New Fantasy-Enhancing Drugs (1969)":

The author proposed to re-introducing the term Oneirophrenia, first employed by Meduna, to designate drug-induced states that differ from the psychotomimetic by the absence of all symptoms of the psychotic range and yet share with the psychotomimetic experience the prominence of primary process thinking. Harmaline and ibogaine characteristically elicit such a state, for their psychological effect is one much like the bringing about of dream phenomena without the loss of consciousness, changes in the perception of the environment, delusions, or formal alterations of thinking and depersonalization.

In short, we may speak of an enhancement of fantasy which, remarkable as it may be, does not interfere with ego functions. Such an enhancement of fantasy, as we will see, is in the nature of both an increase in vividness of visual imagery (which takes on an eidetic quality) and an increased spontaneity of content, which resembles that of true dreams more than that of ordinary daydreams.

In a way, neither harmaline nor iboga may be said to be new. Of course, each has been used for centuries by people in Asia, Africa, and South America, mostly as a part of rituals intended to bring the individual into contact with the realm of myth.

 

[obliguhl]

Since i prefer caapi heavy brews, i first drink the harmalas, then wait 20 minutes before i drink harmalas + dmt. This way, mao is inhibited both in the gut and brain once the DMT gets introduced.

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Well so this coupled administration really sounds senseful to me.

I may also consider to

1. Eat Harmala

2. Wait (20 mins ?)

3. Eat Harmala + Spice



Now as I only use Syrian Rue instead of Caapi, what amount would you suggest for both Harmala Infusions ?


1. = 200

2. = 200 ?

Or 150/200 or 200 / 150 ?

Or a complete other number ? I know it varies from person to person, but I just wanna know what you guys would suggest on your own experience. THXX



Also: What amount of Spice is a good dosage for a decent experience ? Is 100 mg a nice starting base ? Or will this already be a very heavy experience ?
So far I have only eaten 100 mg of Spice + Junk, with unknown purity, but it was rather low.

 

[obliguhl]

Also: What amount of Spice is a good dosage for a decent experience ? Is 100 mg a nice starting base ? Or will this already be a very heavy experience ?
So far I have only eaten 100 mg of Spice + Junk, with unknown purity, but it was rather low.

Too much. I would start with 30mg at the most, possibly even lower. I'd dial in my harmala dose first to the point where i'm getting visions with no or minimal DMT, then up the DMT content to make the visions more vivid. Otherwise, with insufficient harmala intake, you'll end up with a DMT Trip...nothing wrong with that, but i think its more interesting if you take enough harmalas to have visions.