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Efficiency of Mimosa cold water extraction

blig-blug

blig-blug

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I've been reading some old threads on using a cold water extraction for Mimosa. The consensus seemed to be that much less tannins and gunk are extracted that by boiling. That makes it very interesting to me, as the reason I stopped using Mimosa is that my body seemed to reject the tannins (egg tek wasn't enough).

However, many people made CWEs with the intention of drinking it without harmalas, something possible with Mimosa that requires a much higher dose to be effective. Thus, I don't know how effective the extraction is when compared to simmering, I only found a single pertinent comment that said around 80%. If it's efficient enough, it could be a perfect option for mimosahuasca.

Does anyone have experience with this? I will experiment anyways, but it would be good to have a starting point.
 
Would it be a problem to ingest it? People seem to need dozens of grams of bark for it to be effective without additional MAOIs, so if cold water soak extracts the other actives relatively efficiently, just a few grams shouldn't have too much yuremamine, right? Unless there's a problem when mixing it with harmalas.
 
blig-blug said:
Would it be a problem to ingest it? People seem to need dozens of grams of bark for it to be effective without additional MAOIs, so if cold water soak extracts the other actives relatively efficiently, just a few grams shouldn't have too much yuremamine, right? Unless there's a problem when mixing it with harmalas.
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I've no idea how it interacts with harmalas beyond potentiating maoi. Just be careful ;)
 
What are your thoughts about the detailed preparation?

I wanted to wait until I make extracts again before I go for my second pharma dip. But this also is quite interesting, at least to try and see how well it could work.

My thoughts are
Finely powdered bark, soak and hydrate with minimal water, freeze/thaw [3x], 12/24 h CWE with equal volume of water (with regular mixing?) then filter and squeeze through cotton cloth [3x]. Let settle and filter with coffee filter.

I also think this works best in batch rather than 1 dose.

I have 10 yo ACRB that I can try it on. Maybe I can try 25 g. I do have a little bit of Mimosa but I would save it for extraction, it was much easier to get white xtals with Mimosa.
 
@Sakkadelic, that sounds reasonable. I don't know how much water you'd need.
The general rule for decoctions is 30ml/g, but I wonder if that holds true for CWE.
I'd also use distilled or slightly acidic water for a better result.
Depending on your climate, it might need a bit more than 12/24 hours, imo.

Please keep us updated. I'm very interested to see how it goes.
🙏
 
Sakkadelic said:
What are your thoughts about the detailed preparation?

I wanted to wait until I make extracts again before I go for my second pharma dip. But this also is quite interesting, at least to try and see how well it could work.

My thoughts are
Finely powdered bark, soak and hydrate with minimal water, freeze/thaw [3x], 12/24 h CWE with equal volume of water (with regular mixing?) then filter and squeeze through cotton cloth [3x]. Let settle and filter with coffee filter.

I also think this works best in batch rather than 1 dose.

I have 10 yo ACRB that I can try it on. Maybe I can try 25 g. I do have a little bit of Mimosa but I would save it for extraction, it was much easier to get white xtals with Mimosa.
Click to expand...
Sounds about right to me, however I'm not sure if I will do any thaw/freeze cycles. The old posts don't mention that, and I'm worried it could result not only in better extraction of DMT but also in better extraction of whatever other substances were causing me trouble. So I think I won't do the freezing for my first test, and if it turns out to be underwhelming I will try it.
I agree about doing it in batches, I'll try with 20g mimosa for a first batch in order not to waste too much if it doesn't turn out good.

northape said:
I'd also use distilled or slightly acidic water for a better result.
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Indeed some posts mention that, even pH 3. I'll squeeze some lemon and if it doesn't work well, try with more acid.

By the way, have you seen the Percolator? It seems to not be mentioned much anymore. I may try that in the future as well, it promises a faster CWE due to water actively percolating through the plant material.
 
blig-blug said:
By the way, have you seen the Percolator? It seems to not be mentioned much anymore. I may try that in the future as well, it promises a faster CWE due to water actively percolating through the plant material
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This was what I was going to mention! It was dubbed THP at the time. The process is essentially identical to cold-brewing coffee.

There's a variant where you can freeze the powdered plant material into a block of ice and let it percolate as it thaws. I've made coffee this way and can recommend it as a summer treat. There's no reason not to try it with mimosa or even acacia - it may be slow, but who wants to brew when they're in a hurry?
 
blig-blug said:
By the way, have you seen the Percolator?
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Transform said:
This was what I was going to mention! It was dubbed THP at the time. The process is essentially identical to cold-brewing coffee.
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I remember it from my ayaforum days. At least one person there extracted caapi / mimosa that way with awesome results.
This process needs lots of water from what I recall, so I never tried it myself.
 
northape said:
I remember it from my ayaforum days. At least one person there extracted caapi / mimosa that way with awesome results.
This process needs lots of water from what I recall, so I never tried it myself.
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Well, I hope this piques some interest for people to try the ice block method ;)
I'd guess that one can add a few extra ice cubes on top as the process progresses.
 
From the wiki:
What does a ratio of 1g:150ml mean?
This means that for every gram of herb you use, you add 150 ml of acidified water. So, if you decide to brew 100 grams of caapi, you need to use 100g*150 ml, which equals 15,000 millilitres, that is, 15 litres of water.
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So you need five times more than with a warm water decoction. That's a lot of water.
Please report back if you go this route.
 
I've also been thinking about a "cold oil extraction" based on how people make St. John's wort oil. They crush or powder the plant, put it in a bottle with good quality oil, and let it soak for a few weeks, shaking it sometimes.

I'm aware that oil can be used as a solvent in normal extraction procedures with base etc, but I wonder if this very long soak without freebasing could work and maybe also extract other actives in mimosa, to have a mimosa experience. A potential problem with this, if it works, is that it may not be concentrated enough so a large amount of oil would need to be ingested, and that sounds like a good way to have stomach trouble.

northape said:
So you need five times more than with a warm water decoction. That's a lot of water.
Please report back if you go this route.
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I will if I try it. I have a gigantic pot, so the water volume won't be a problem.
The author reports needing only 10g of caapi for Aya, if that's the case it would be perfect for me, as the reason I haven't tried caapi yet is that it's too expensive for me if 50-100g are to be used.
 
blig-blug said:
I've also been thinking about a "cold oil extraction" based on how people make St. John's wort oil.
Click to expand...
I don't know about the chemistry of it, but ingesting large quantities of oil with harmalas sounds like a disaster :ROFLMAO:
blig-blug said:
The author reports needing only 10g of caapi for Aya, if that's the case it would be perfect for me, as the reason I haven't tried caapi yet is that it's too expensive for me if 50-100g are to be used.
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10g feels like wishful thinking, but who knows? Caapi vine on the market could be very different strength-wise. If you find some potent variety, 50g would be enough. I use somewhere around 200g per dose when I work with it, but I'm an extreme case. The red vine I bought last time only needs 50g per dose, and it's a heavy dose too.
 
northape said:
@Sakkadelic, that sounds reasonable. I don't know how much water you'd need.
The general rule for decoctions is 30ml/g, but I wonder if that holds true for CWE.
I'd also use distilled or slightly acidic water for a better result.
Depending on your climate, it might need a bit more than 12/24 hours, imo.

Please keep us updated. I'm very interested to see how it goes.
🙏
Click to expand...
Yes in my thinking I wanted to keep the water minimal so there won't be a need for reduction. But maybe more water can be used to get about 100 ml per dose, so for 25g (5 doses) that would be 500 ml in total. Not too far from the ratio you mentioned. With squeezing, the water can be further minimised as you're forcing the water out and not relying on diffusion + stirring only.

blig-blug said:
Sounds about right to me, however I'm not sure if I will do any thaw/freeze cycles. The old posts don't mention that, and I'm worried it could result not only in better extraction of DMT but also in better extraction of whatever other substances were causing me trouble. So I think I won't do the freezing for my first test, and if it turns out to be underwhelming I will try it.
I agree about doing it in batches, I'll try with 20g mimosa for a first batch in order not to waste too much if it doesn't turn out good.
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Yeah that's a good point. It's hard to tell what is more soluble at cold/room temp water, dmt or the other stuff. Dmt I believe is quite soluble and the other stuff tend to appear more in extraction when the solution is heated.

Keep the bark and use it in the next extraction if CWE was ineffective.

blig-blug said:
I've also been thinking about a "cold oil extraction" based on how people make St. John's wort oil. They crush or powder the plant, put it in a bottle with good quality oil, and let it soak for a few weeks, shaking it sometimes.

I'm aware that oil can be used as a solvent in normal extraction procedures with base etc, but I wonder if this very long soak without freebasing could work and maybe also extract other actives in mimosa, to have a mimosa experience. A potential problem with this, if it works, is that it may not be concentrated enough so a large amount of oil would need to be ingested, and that sounds like a good way to have stomach trouble.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much what I do for mandrake extraction. I do give it warm baths to speed it up but cold works equally well.
And what would happen if we add acidic water to the enriched oil, would the dmt migrate to the water layer? That would be super convenient
 
Sakkadelic said:
And what would happen if we add acidic water to the enriched oil, would the dmt migrate to the water layer? That would be super convenient
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I think so, but I wonder if it would be mostly only DMT. In that case, it would make sense to freebase first as in some teks that use oil as a solvent (maybe with lime to avoid saponification?).

Sakkadelic said:
Keep the bark and use it in the next extraction if CWE was ineffective.
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That's a very good point, I will! And I wouldn't have thought of it.
 
blig-blug said:
I think so, but I wonder if it would be mostly only DMT. In that case, it would make sense to freebase first as in some teks that use oil as a solvent (maybe with lime to avoid saponification?).
Click to expand...
You mean before adding the oil? Yeah dmt might be more soluble as a freebase in vegetable oil. Then it would be a typical backsalting step after. It would be nice to get some data on dmt salts and freebase solubility in different vegetable oils.

blig-blug said:
That's a very good point, I will! And I wouldn't have thought of it.
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Haha i'm sure you would have once it was in front of you
 
Sakkadelic said:
You mean before adding the oil? Yeah dmt might be more soluble as a freebase in vegetable oil. Then it would be a typical backsalting step after. It would be nice to get some data on dmt salts and freebase solubility in different vegetable oils.
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Yes, there are some "eco" teks like that. I may try something like that in the coming months as well, where I am now I don't have proper protection and the smells of heptane or naphtha could attract attention, so it's a good occasion to test those methods.
 
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