ego death...

[I am.]

swim is fairly well versed in the psychonautical world. been playing around for years. been through a lot. swim has flipped his switch and lost his mind on lsd once. found jesus in the middle of a bad trip. swim's kicked plenty of doors off the hinges in his mind. but this ego death thing...a lot of swim's friends talk about it. say they've experienced it. told swim that once he knew, swim would hate it. read stories on the web. some people like it. some people don't. what is it? seriously? swim agrees with nietzche "the ego is a subtle foe for the mere act of fighting it only makes it stronger." swim doesn't believe you can kill you ego. swim think that these people who say that have have really only been fooled by their own ego into thinking they are different than everyone else to think they they've been enlightened. swim doesn't know. swim could be very wrong. swim may have a hard lesson ahead. like i said though. swim's been to some pretty weird places and played around. lsd, dmt, shrooms, ketamine, mescaline. swim's totally into the spiritual side of this life. swim sees that ego death is a practice for religious and mystical purposes, so there must be some good. but swim hears a lot of people say they wish they never would've. anyone experienced it? what was it like? do you regret it? any articles on experiences or guides? i've been told that the only way to truly control one's ego is to compliment it with kind firmness. love any advice, experiences, guidance. thanks...

 

[olympus mon]

icehold, good topic. i never understood how someone could find ego death un appealing. maybe be a bit intense the first time but i have always considered the trips that i achieved ego loss to be quite profound if not the most profound. life changing right there on the spot! boom!
the only thing i could think of would be someone experiencing a bad trip and ego death simultaneously. so the curious mind would have to ask is the ego loss CAUSING the bad trip or PART of it the same way hallucinations are. hallucinations aren't causing the bad trip they're just a part of it.

my point being ego loss is the most eye opening experience ive ever had or can imagine. it in a single blow confirmed my suspicions about life, death , the physical universe ext. thats a big fucking thing! its hard for me to imagine a bad trip during this state because there is no "I". there is no-one or no-thing to be scared or scared of. its just pure energy.

 

[gibran2]

...anyone experienced it? what was it like? do you regret it? any articles on experiences or guides? i've been told that the only way to truly control one's ego is to compliment it with kind firmness. love any advice, experiences, guidance. thanks...

How do YOU define ego death? It seems that there really isn’t any standard definition.

There was another thread a while back where ego death was discussed.

 

[gibran2]

...its hard for me to imagine a bad trip during this state because there is no "I". there is no-one or no-thing to be scared or scared of. its just pure energy.

But isn’t there always some sort of “I”? After all, you remember the experience. During the experience, there was an “experiencer”. There was, at the very least, conscious awareness. Even pure conscious awareness is an “I”. Isn’t it?

As I understand it, ego death is the annihilation of that which you normally consider to be “self”. But this isn’t the same as the annihilation of everything. The annihilation of everything by definition must include the annihilation of conscious awareness. And without conscious awareness, there is no experience to later recall.

 

[Eden]

I agree with your statement, that 'ego death is the annihilation of that which you normally consider to be "self"'.

But perhaps it is not the "I" which remembers the experience. Accepting the definition, ego has been destroyed, hence the sense of individuality and singular perspective is gone.
Instead, one is left with the notorious "one-ness" of the universe.

And perhaps what one is left with, though there is no one, is the underlying connection between us all...the energy mesh of existence, the great consciousness.
Such that what is remembered is not remembered through the individual, through the finite, but is remembered by all.
This could begin to explain the origin of the sense of SOURCE, the chill felt when you know, on the deepest level of understanding, that which another traveler is describing.
It is because you have been there....we have all been there.

We share the experience; all existence shares the experience.

...Spontaneous theory, bouncing thoughts off the walls.
I have previously always accepted the validity of claiming that because the experience is remembered, awareness exists, and hence the "I" exists...
Maybe we have been accepting a false comprehension of what self, what the "I" really is.

 

[unclesyd]

First of I suggest reading the psychedlic experience, it is a really good guidebook to ego death/rebirth and the such in my opinion. And I cant believe I dont see more about it on my countless readings and paroosings. I almost always have my ego killed only of course to be reborn. As someone else stated it is so hard to describe. It has been so long since I have relly read the before mentioned book I cant surely say what the exact thoughts are on this, I still have no problem during my experiences. It is usually only when I am having a hard time achieving this I will review the book. And actually I even had two ego deaths/rebirths in one trip recently, that was something. For me it is all part of the ritual, I am crawling all over the floor, chanting the ohm mantra or something of the sort, crawling, crawling, right out of my skin (which is usually my shirt which I pull over my head representing my old selfs skin and I am bare, new, reborn). It is wierd it alwways seems to happen like this. Then once reborn back into the lotus position to enjoy my new found elivated ego. The last few times it felt like my heart literally stopped and then reboot. And the last time I was finnally reborn as the creator(still tons of work to go before total takeover though...), which is a different discusion all together. And this thing about the I, there of course will always be an I, an ego. But a true ego death involves elevating that I unto a higher plain of consciousness. When the old I dies and the new one is born you have experienced ego death. Does this mean you are drastically changed as an individual, perhaps not but you know are vibrating ona higher energy. Have to go lost my train of thought. Peace be with you and happy dieing. 8)

 

[olympus mon]

...its hard for me to imagine a bad trip during this state because there is no "I". there is no-one or no-thing to be scared or scared of. its just pure energy.

But isn’t there always some sort of “I”? After all, you remember the experience. During the experience, there was an “experiencer”. There was, at the very least, conscious awareness. Even pure conscious awareness is an “I”. Isn’t it?

As I understand it, ego death is the annihilation of that which you normally consider to be “self”. But this isn’t the same as the annihilation of everything. The annihilation of everything by definition must include the annihilation of conscious awareness. And without conscious awareness, there is no experience to later recall.

wowzer gibran! good stuff. i see your excellent point and id like to elaborate upon it. during ego loss i feel their may be some "time" that is un accounted and in that moment i question if there is a subject to have a qualia type experience. i will explain.

in all my ego loss, (which btw i dislike that term, it doesn't resonate with me at all), there a distinct moment of consciousness or re introduced self awareness. this is on the way back home and my knowledge of self comes back more with each passing moment. its only in these moments that i am able to realize i was just separated form self. i can recall some remembrance for the preceding moments before self awareness but its quite clear that the experience went further back. theres no way to prove or disprove if anyone or thing was experiencing anything for that "missing time" maybe pure death of self is happening. i dont see how we can say for sure anymore than i can prove that anything exists outside of my own subjective experience (qualia).

im sorry i am having a difficult time putting this into words. but this is the stuff i wonder about.

 

[I am.]

i was looking through another website in regards to ego death and someone wrote this and said that this was his ego death.
"you're right at the peak of the trip. Things get too heavy, your poor mind can't take it and you wind up on the floor in fetal position. Mind gives way, you journey through the dark tunnel with geometric shapes and colors abound. you'll know when you get there. Rebirth is bliss."

what does this sound like to y'all? if this is an ego death, than ok, i experienced that, almost verbatim. a couple years ago. all i remembered was the fear coming on and knowing that it was gonna take over. but i wasn't afraid for the long term. i knew that this would only last for so many hours. deep, dark voices. kaleidoscope tunnel but the further i went, the darker the colors got until their was only blackness. i was completely out of control but knew that i would be ok once this hell was over. then, i was catapulted out at a million light years per hour, came to and was almost sober. covered in sweat. probably the cleanest my soul had ever felt. now, from time to time, during my trip i get the thought that it's getting heavy and might happen again. i'm afraid of the hell i'll have to experience but would love to feel that pure again. so yeah...does that sound like ego death? if not, what do you make of this?

 

[unclesyd]

Sorry I ended before wrapping things up, had some family issues. I can see why siddhartha left his family to achieve full liberation, hopefully I wont have to do that though.

I think it is impossible to have one general description that can describe everyones ego loss. I do believe everytime I achieve it to be some what different, although the ritual does not vary too much the death does. Mainly because you are different than you were before.

I do believe ICEKHOLD that you experienced ego loss, but if you have to question it maybe you did not. For me it is quite obvious.

Afterwards is always a feeling of oneness, of ahhhh so nice to be here again, of, of, an unexplainable exalation. Also DO NOT BE AFRAID!!!! This is a huge trap to preventing your ego from being lost. Flow with everything, and do not attach yourself.

The psychedelic experience manual(http://deoxy.org/psyexp.htm#2) explains all the visions/thoughts you see are distractions brought by your old ego, cause of course it does not want to die. Empty your mind, the ohm mantra really works well for me on this, relax and float down stream.

And remember practice makes perfect. I had hundreds of LSD trips before I read the manual, and I would say very few ego deaths before it. Now that i have read and practiced its principles almost everytime I will be reborn. It is funny though how many of the things I experienced before reading this book suddenly made sense and I was like, whoa I knew that before I knew that, if you get my drift. Happy trails to you, I hope we meet again...........

 

[unclesyd]

Oh and I am everything not nothing. Wahahaha

 

[olympus mon]

i was looking through another website in regards to ego death and someone wrote this and said that this was his ego death.
"you're right at the peak of the trip. Things get too heavy, your poor mind can't take it and you wind up on the floor in fetal position. Mind gives way, you journey through the dark tunnel with geometric shapes and colors abound. you'll know when you get there. Rebirth is bliss."

what does this sound like to y'all? if this is an ego death, than ok, i experienced that, almost verbatim. a couple years ago. all i remembered was the fear coming on and knowing that it was gonna take over. but i wasn't afraid for the long term. i knew that this would only last for so many hours. deep, dark voices. kaleidoscope tunnel but the further i went, the darker the colors got until their was only blackness. i was completely out of control but knew that i would be ok once this hell was over. then, i was catapulted out at a million light years per hour, came to and was almost sober. covered in sweat. probably the cleanest my soul had ever felt. now, from time to time, during my trip i get the thought that it's getting heavy and might happen again. i'm afraid of the hell i'll have to experience but would love to feel that pure again. so yeah...does that sound like ego death? if not, what do you make of this?

i would have to say that none of these description fit what i have felt and believe ego-death to be. mostly due the the fact that there is a conscious and thinking observer through the whole description. to me it just sounds like a really intense but self aware journey.

 

[digital_phreedom]

There are many ways that people would define, or try to explain, what an ego-death experience is like.. And they're probably all right in some regards.

I've had a small handful of experiences where I definitely experienced a huge loosening of my hold on 'ego' (or it's hold on 'me'). But the one and only time I had what I think to be true, and complete ego-death.. I barely remember it. I'm not sure if I blacked out, or if that's just the nature of the beast. I have no idea how long it lasted, it could have been seconds, minutes, or a few hours. No clue. When I came to, I had the feeling that something incredibly profound had just happened, possibly the most important experience of my 'life'. Right after it happened, and months after it happened, I was constantly trying to piece it back together.. but all I could really remember was the sense of some sort of HUGE energy. Something bigger than big. The biggest thing possible. And I remembered "love". Pure, divine love. That's about all I remember. And even though memories are fuzzy.

Also, when I came to, I cried my eyes out.. I don't know if it was out of fear, or happiness, or both. But I bawled like a baby for quite some time. And the days and weeks immediately following the experience left me very emotional.

 

[olympus mon]

digital- that sounds like a very powerful experience and quite beautiful how it touched you so much.

i remember the first time i had what im perceiving as ego-loss with dmt. i honestly can say that ive seen the world as a different place since that evening.
and your right its hard to define what ego death is as it is many things to many people. ive had very experienced friends tell me about their dmt journeys characteristics and nuances and im often like, "wow none of that rings a bell nor happens to me" this stuff is so interestingly unique in that way.

even how dmt trips were in the beginning days seems like a totally different experience from how they were before i stopped smoking dmt this past year. in ways better and in some ways lesser than. its all part of the gig we signed up for. its all good.

 

[WSaged]

ICEKOHLD, unclesyd, could you guys start writing in paragraphs & ideas instead of giant blocks of text please?!?!?!

FYI, most people end up skipping over big-wall-of-text posts rather than bother working to read them.
Don't know if you've noticed, but it's quite hard to read more than 2-3 lines before all the letters start blurring together...


Thanks!!
WS

 

[unclesyd]

Yeah I can see that know that you say something.

Everyone puts spaces between everything and is much easier to read.

Will start doing that.

Here is a link to the sacred text:

The Psychedelic Experience

The Psychedelic Experience by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner, & Richard Alpert

deoxy.org

Deoxy is also a great site.

 

[I am.]

WSaged...ok. sorry. thanks for the heads up! last thing i wanna do is come to rome and not do as the roman's do. thanks and i'll try to remember.

 

[actualfactual]

Hey, ICE. I experienced ego death for the first and only time a few weeks ago, my report of it is here: Falling into the universe. - First steps in Hyperspace - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

As far as your original questions -- I do not regret it at all. It was not a pleasant experience at all -- it was actually the most terrifying thing that has ever happened to me. The thing is though, after the death you are left with the rebirth, and the person I was reborn as is a much better person then I was.

I have found happiness in my every day life, I understand this life is just a temporary excursion for our eternal energy and I should just enjoy it for what it is. I have made many lifestyle changes in the past few weeks that I am sure will last until I die.

I am for sure a better person because of it.

Also, I was not looking for ego death and I had not read deeply about it prior to this experience. Once I read about it though, what happened to me was unquestionable.

Best of luck.

 

[BenevolentSon]

swim doesn't believe you can kill you ego. swim think that these people who say that have have really only been fooled by their own ego into thinking they are different than everyone else to think they they've been enlightened. swim doesn't know. swim could be very wrong. swim may have a hard lesson ahead.

I think there are different degrees of ego death. Like the ego getting more and more pushed to the side type thing. See complete ego death would happen most while breaking through. But I think people are occaisionally experiencing a kind of detachment from the ego. Sober, about a month ago I was just "being" for a good hour, there was just, ahggg, it was a feeling a state of mind. There was very little to no train of thought, I just felt my place in this universe and accepted it and loved it! Pure spirit/energy. Now saying that someone who has said they have experienced some kind of ego death or whatever as thinking that they are enlightened is just silly. I think the majority of people who are on a spiritual path are pretty fucking far from enlightenment. You said you have had a lot of experience with psychedelics, I bet you have loss ego at certain times throughout these journeys and just not really noticed it type thing. Just went with it and didn't think to yourself hours/days later that it was some sort of detachment from ego.

 

[I am.]

I think there are different degrees of ego death. Like the ego getting more and more pushed to the side type thing. See complete ego death would happen most while breaking through. But I think people are occaisionally experiencing a kind of detachment from the ego. Sober, about a month ago I was just "being" for a good hour, there was just, ahggg, it was a feeling a state of mind. There was very little to no train of thought, I just felt my place in this universe and accepted it and loved it! Pure spirit/energy. Now saying that someone who has said they have experienced some kind of ego death or whatever as thinking that they are enlightened is just silly. I think the majority of people who are on a spiritual path are pretty fucking far from enlightenment. You said you have had a lot of experience with psychedelics, I bet you have loss ego at certain times throughout these journeys and just not really noticed it type thing. Just went with it and didn't think to yourself hours/days later that it was some sort of detachment from ego.

yes. agree with you wholeheartedly. i have experienced ego loss, have notched away at my conscious mind, just never put much conscious thought into it. like you, sober, i exercise myself to be a "being". for arguments sake, let's assume my name is "fred". i tell myself,"there is no fred. there is only me. i am all that is. fred is what my mother named me and the world knows me as. fred is fake. i am all that is. this is my body. not fred's." i imagine all that is fred retreating to the confides of my skull. i can see fred get put into his place, so to speak. i see fred applied to only my brain, which is fred. it usually takes about 10-15 minutes of this and then i can feel fred disappear and i'm allowed to just be. shut my head off. feel a huge sense of peace.

we are human beings. by definition, we are here to just BE. not control. not manipulate. fred controls. fred fucks things up. fred must be put in his place.

and like you said, just because someone has experienced ego death doesn't make them more "enlightened" than someone who hasn't. in theory, it could be quite the opposite. if the ego is the conscious mind, all that is fred, than, the fact that i was able to experience all that i have over all these years without experiencing ego death COULD mean that my conscious mind is a lot stronger and i'm more open minded than those who have. i say that cuz that would mean that i was able to learn a lot more from psychedelics without having my conscious mind destroyed. so how does that fit into your view? (not saying you benevolent...just anyone who thinks they are more enlightened for having reached that point earlier than others). like nietzche said, "the ego is a subtle foe for the mere act of fighting it only makes it stronger". (might've already made that quote...not sure).

in the end, we must all realize that we don't matter. we're all the same. we're all God, just another side of "Him". no matter how enlightened or experienced someone is, they are no more important than someone who hasn't. we're all in this together...

 

[BenevolentSon]

Basically I think that everything is benevolent AND totally equal. Moving on.

I think this thread is just a terminology mixup. When someone says ego death, they don't mean your ego will never come back...because its dead. They just mean its gone (at least thats how I and other use it, but ofcodurse Buddhist monks have reported having total loss of ego for a very long time but I don't think there is acually death of ego...until oyu physically die). I have no idea if there is a set definition. It has a pretty wide spectrum and lots of variables and degrees. So ego loss for someone could be quite small in comparison to the ego loss of someone else. But no one should ever have an ego (dominant male type ego) about whos done what in terms of ego death because it just does not matter (I know for sure that I am very low at the bottom of this ladder/spectrum), they're a different person trying to get to the same destination as anyone else.

The word ego is generally used either meaning, 1: your everything, everything you know about your own persona. 2: the one-up-menship type ego, like the macho man leaning over the little man.

Maybe that clears some foggy waters.

L&L!