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Extract Quid

Migrated topic.
applebaum

applebaum

Rising Star
I had an idea I'd like to run buy you guys who know more about this kind of stuff.

I've been growing salvia for a year now and so have collected quite a bit of plain leaf. I've tried quiding, but the bitter taste makes my mouth water so much I can't keep the juice in my mouth more than a minute. So what I was thinking was making an extract and putting that onto a 1/3 or so amount of better tasting leaf like mint or a nice tasting blend of herbs or something. That way I wouldn't have to fill my whole mouth and what I was chewing I wouldn't keep slobbering all over myself.

My questions are, after I get a crude extract do you think I'll need to wash it in Naphtha a few times? As in are all the bad tastes of the salvia still in the crude extract?
And is chewing a smaller amount of extract as effective as checking a larger amount of plain leaf or does the extracting by default ruin the absorption a little bit?
 
For whatever reason, quidding extracts doesn't work. There must be something essential lost in the extraction process. What I've been curious about for a while now, and it's definitely feasible if you grow your own, is to press the juice from the fresh leaf and drink it. I've yet to try it (smoking it for me is very comfortable and the bitter taste isn't pleasant) but I do plan on getting the courage to try it sooner or later.
 
Thought I'd post a follow up about this. I'd hoped maybe whatever is required to absorb the good stuff would be there in enough quantity in a weaker extract. I made some 5x extract onto Salvia leaves, not mint like my original idea.

Up to now 2 grams dried was about my limit as to how much I could stand chewing. So I took 1/2 a gram as quid figuring the effects should be somewhere between nothing and what I'd felt before quiding 2 grams. I ended up having pretty similar effects to when I'd used 2 grams dried plain leaf. If there was any difference I'd say it came on maybe 5-10 minutes sooner and was little bit shorter in duration. Hard to say for sure because of the low dose.

I'm glad this worked out though because it opened up higher oral doses without having to stuff my cheeks completely full.
 
I have had success with putting the salvia in capsules and eating that....especially with mushrooms...

I also tried oral salvia with maoi...that scared the crud out of me...so it worked.

I'm too chicken for Salvia..DMT scares me enough.
:d
 
Eliyahu said:
I have had success with putting the salvia in capsules and eating that....especially with mushrooms...
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Have you had success eating encapsulated salvia without mushrooms? What sort of dosage was involved?

Conventional wisdom is that salvinorin A is completely inactivated in the stomach. I wouldn't be surprised if this bit of "wisdom" isn't entirely correct; it may be active if a sufficiently large dose is taken. Of 20 volunteer subjects in one study, none perceived any effects from 10 mg salvinorin A in capsules. I'm familiar with a report that drinking a liquid suspension containing about 30 mg salvinorin A produces a moderately intense experience... but then, drinking it as a liquid suspension allows some of the drug to absorb through the mouth. I haven't yet seen a report where a large enough dose to produce any substantial effects was taken in capsule form.
 
^entropy salvia is not throught be entirley inactive in the gut. The mazatecs do press the juices from the leaves into a liquid sort of tea and drink it. I have done this a few times and it is active but nothing compared to quidding. Drinking or eating it(other than swallowing after quidding) is pointless for entheogenic effects really in my experience. It is so mild and you need much more leaf to get any effect.
 
For whatever reason, quidding extracts doesn't work. There must be something essential lost in the extraction process.
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This is not true. There are people putting extracts in chewing gum.
Extract-laced hard candy has also enjoyed quite some popularity, especially among german speaking salvia divinorum friends.
 
jamie said:
entropy salvia is not throught be entirley inactive in the gut. The mazatecs do press the juices from the leaves into a liquid sort of tea and drink it. I have done this a few times and it is active but nothing compared to quidding. Drinking or eating it(other than swallowing after quidding) is pointless for entheogenic effects really in my experience. It is so mild and you need much more leaf to get any effect.
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Considering how mild the effects are, why do you attribute this to salvinorin A entering the bloodstream through the gut? Isn't it entirely plausible that these mild effects are from the small portion of salvinorin A that enters the bloodstream through the mucous membranes of the mouth and throat?

But I didn't say that it's entirely inactive in the gut, I said that's the conventional wisdom. Siebert claimed that in the gastrointestinal system, "salvinorin A is inactivated before entering the bloodstream" in his 1994 paper that sparked popular interest in S. divinorum. This has led many to believe his premature conclusion as fact.

Personally I suspect that the problems with orally administered salvinorin A don't have much to do with it being metabolized too quickly, as Siebert suggests. That could be a factor, but I don't think it's the largest one. I believe the issue has more to do with the very low solubility of salvinorin A in gastric fluid and the fact that, even when dissolved, it may not permeate the stomach lining easily. These factors could lead to a staggeringly low bioavailability that could only be overcome with very large doses. A clever pharmaceutical preparation might get around this barrier, but I doubt anyone with the resources will tackle that problem until they find an analogue that they want to develop into a marketable pharmaceutical.



obliguhl said:
For whatever reason, quidding extracts doesn't work. There must be something essential lost in the extraction process.
Click to expand...

This is not true. There are people putting extracts in chewing gum.
Extract-laced hard candy has also enjoyed quite some popularity, especially among german speaking salvia divinorum friends.
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree. Plenty of people have found quidding extracts to be effective. Plenty of people have complained of failing to achieve any effects this way, but there are a couple possible explanations for that.

First, you never know how reputable an extract is. In 2006, a team analyzed four different samples of salvia extracts (two from the internet, two from a local headshop) and found that the salvinorin A content of all of the extracts was within the range typically found in plain leaves. It's not clear whether the vendors were dishonestly labeling plain leaf as 5x/10x/20x extracts, or if the extracts were prepared by an incompetent "chemist" whose process did not work. What is clear is that a gram of the 20x extract contained only 0.46 mg salvinorin A. If you try to quid that extract and take only 1/20th the dose that you would need with plain leaves, of course it's going to fail.

The other possible contributing factor is technique. Just sticking a pinch of extract in your bottom lip is not likely to work well, nor is extracting salvinorin A onto cigarette paper and dosing it like it's blotter acid. Salvinorin A really requires an emulsion to absorb effectively. And that typically involves chewing thoroughly. (This may not be the case with the salvia hard candies though; it may dissolve already emulsified and not need to be vigorously swished and chewed around the mouth)
 
obliguhl said:
Extract-laced hard candy has also enjoyed quite some popularity, especially among german speaking salvia divinorum friends.
Click to expand...

What a good idea! I'd love to have a little box of werthers originals that take you to another dimension. How are they able to distribute the salvinorin evenly in the candlies, since salvinorin isn't soluble in water?
 
A clever pharmaceutical preparation might get around this barrier, but I doubt anyone with the resources will tackle that problem until they find an analogue that they want to develop into a marketable pharmaceutical.
Click to expand...

There's a recent thread in this very forum which addresses this. I'd love to see this idea developed. The chemistry was over my head, but I suspect there's an attainable sublingual extract to be had here.

 
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