Extraction anomalies

[lightninrob]

Hi guys. Im encountering some differences in my latest extraction that ive never seen before.

First of all i got about a gram of red gooey dmt from an evap, ive never seen red before. Every time ive evapped before ive gotten yellow goo or wax or even some crystals.

Ive extracted many times, my most successful yielded HUGE white/off yellow crystals from ONE pull and freeze precip. Basically what i did as followed was the lazymans STB except i freeze precipitated. Now i cant exactly remember how long i freeze precipiated, but it probably wasnt for more than a day.

I havent recrystallized or anything (i dont have time for that right now unfortunately) but this time around my yields seem much lower as well. Usually i get a couple of grams on the first pull (1kg MHRB) but this time i might have gotten less than 1.

I should add, i shook the bucket containing the naptha and basified root bark, then waited for it to settle. Ive done this before to great success, so i dont think its that.

Also i tried to freeze precipitate my first pull for 12 hours, and saw alot of cloudy white crystals suspended in the lower layer of the naptha, but i think i honestly used too much naptha this time around so they wouldnt form at and stick to the bottom in the huge crystals ive seen before. I am strapped for time so i decided to try an evap, but before i did that i tried to strain the floating crystals out with a wire mesh and cut up T shirt, yielding probably 50mgs of yellow wax (it looked like a lot more!!)

Anyways, if i could get some advice from someone with more experience, do you think the DMT is red from contamination from the basified water? If theres any contamination its not more than a few drops. Also im using ACRB for the first time instead of MHRB, but i know that probably doesnt make much of a difference. Also, why am i getting such low yields from a KG. The naptha SEEMED yellow enough!

I guess ill just recrystallize when i have enough time.

Anyways... i know thats alot to read, and its not really a discussion, just a guy asking for help, so thank you for your time.

 

[Earthwalker]

First of all ACRB is differant to mimosa as you would no but the yeilds will be less and the goo is a problem of the oils and fats (nmt ) aswell but did you defat as 1kg you really shoulda defated ! If you did idk but you need to do more then just slosh the bucket around to pick up the goodies ! Also pre evap you're naps and freeze precipe for atleast 18-24hrs with the larger amounts of naps !

 

[lightninrob]

If i recrystallize in the freezer that will take care of the fats right? Because DMT has a higher freeze point than that of the fats??

Honestly though ive never defatted before and have gotten huge white crystals from straight to base and freeze precipitating. Maybe its different for acacia though.

Anyways thanks.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Do a re-x, or worst case, you can do a mini a/b on your product.

Defats are an unnecessary waste of time/energy/solvents.

 

[Earthwalker]

Do a re-x, or worst case, you can do a mini a/b on your product.

Defats are an unnecessary waste of time/energy/solvents.

Why is that SnozzleBerry ?? How would you surgest to deal with the fats ,do you just leave it all in the dish and scape everything up and Rex or just use it for changa or any other product ??

 

[SnozzleBerry]

You can salt out of your NPS, if you really want a cleaner product. It's less time-intensive, less effort, and less wasteful (especially for people without distillation apparatus) than defatting.

This used to be somewhat common knowledge, but then it got drowned out in the tidal wave of teks that cropped up around the time that acacias became popular for extracting. Unfortunately, it appears that many folks writing those pictorials were unfamiliar with this or did not take the time to do adequate research, and now defatting has become commonplace. I try to raise this point whenever I see someone mention defatting, but it's kind of overwhelming and I feel my energy is best spent elsewhere.

Sure; Coschi does it in his tek (can be found as LexTek) or as DMT Handbook. He extracts ala A/B (from some Acacia bark I remember), pulls with naphtha and salts with an acid back to water, then he basifies water and extracts with fresh naphtha.

This is quite clever, especially some time ago when defatting on bark was thought to be very important. By back-salting the alkaloids back to the acidic water one leaves the fats behind in the non-polar. By doing a "second" A/B with this alkaloid-laden water one gets a far cleaner product. This approach is still a good one in too fatty/too chlorophyl sources like chaliponga or chacruna.

 

[lightninrob]

The odd thing is the red DMT stuff is kinda liquidy.. like i have it on a plate and if i leave the plate tilted too long it begins to slide slowly. Its def DMT, it smells like it, and the naptha smell is all gone.

im like WTF??

 

[Earthwalker]

Lightninrob ! It will eventually go to a waxy substance !

You can salt out of your NPS, if you really want a cleaner product. It's less time-intensive, less effort, and less wasteful (especially for people without distillation apparatus) than defatting.

This used to be somewhat common knowledge, but then it got drowned out in the tidal wave of teks that cropped up around the time that acacias became popular for extracting. Unfortunately, it appears that many folks writing those pictorials were unfamiliar with this or did not take the time to do adequate research, and now defatting has become commonplace. I try to raise this point whenever I see someone mention defatting, but it's kind of overwhelming and I feel my energy is best spent elsewhere.

Sure; Coschi does it in his tek (can be found as LexTek) or as DMT Handbook. He extracts ala A/B (from some Acacia bark I remember), pulls with naphtha and salts with an acid back to water, then he basifies water and extracts with fresh naphtha.

This is quite clever, especially some time ago when defatting on bark was thought to be very important. By back-salting the alkaloids back to the acidic water one leaves the fats behind in the non-polar. By doing a "second" A/B with this alkaloid-laden water one gets a far cleaner product. This approach is still a good one in too fatty/too chlorophyl sources like chaliponga or chacruna.

When you say back salting , when you put the alkaloid filled naps back into acidified water do you add salt to it before basifying

and repulling with fresh naps ???

 

[--Shadow]

Do a re-x, or worst case, you can do a mini a/b on your product.

Defats are an unnecessary waste of time/energy/solvents.

I disagree. Since I started defatting my ACRB (same stock), I get WAAAY less goo, and more xtals

 

[Earthwalker]

Do a re-x, or worst case, you can do a mini a/b on your product.

Defats are an unnecessary waste of time/energy/solvents.

I disagree. Since I started defatting my ACRB (same stock), I get WAAAY less goo, and more xtals

Yes I defat a couple of times but I'm willing to try the other way that SnozzleBerry discribes a go , and when ppl say about

wasting naphtha I laugh :lol: bloody hell it's $7 a litre , and that's not buying bulk so it's not liquid gold :?: , and if you can afford

other things like gvg's arc lighters bloody pretty little cases for the gvg $7 ain't shit !!8)

 

[Infundibulum]

Do a re-x, or worst case, you can do a mini a/b on your product.

Defats are an unnecessary waste of time/energy/solvents.

I disagree. Since I started defatting my ACRB (same stock), I get WAAAY less goo, and more xtals

Hard to disagree without a side-by-side comparison . Mini A/Bs are a form of defatting anyway. The only thing you spend extra is water and some acid, which is far more preferable than having to deal with copious amounts of smelly, flammable, more-expensive-than-water, ecologically damaging solvents.

BTW, how do you manage the waste NP solvents from the defats? Surely you don't use them to pull freebases, so you must be doing something to get rid off of them in a safe manner.

 

[Earthwalker]

Don't no about shadow but I leave mine in the jar in the sun to evap , it happens quite quickly over a few hours as it's only

3+ 50ml parts !!

 

[Hieronymous]

I tend to agree with SnozzleBerry, I much prefer a post extraction mini A/B to defatting before the alkaline stage.

I've tried defatting some plant material with up to 5 defats in the acidic pre-extraction phase only to find that many of the crystals won't settle and just float around in the precip dish and those that do are very impure/oily and yellow.

After a mini A/B on the combined pulls, the same crystals are pure white and freeze precipitate much better.

 

[Earthwalker]

I tend to agree with SnozzleBerry, I much prefer a post extraction mini A/B to defatting before the alkaline stage.

I've tried defatting some plant material with up to 5 defats in the acidic pre-extraction phase only to find that many of the crystals won't settle and just float around in the precip dish and those that do are very impure/oily and yellow.

After a mini A/B on the combined pulls, the same crystals are pure white and freeze precipitate much better.

There's never anything wrong with experimentation , so I'm gunna try the mini ab , I've been scared in prior times that I may lose

some of the dmt that I'd picked up back into the mini , but I'm always listened to the more Experianced members and if noobs like

me didn't listen , that would be quite foolish !!

 

[Infundibulum]

Don't no about shadow but I leave mine in the jar in the sun to evap , it happens quite quickly over a few hours as it's only

3+ 50ml parts !!

That is OK-ish even though a waste, if not an extra burden to the environment by all means.

Where I am getting at is that in some countries (like the UK) there is little sun to haste evaporation. And in UK the most readily available naphthas are frequently heavy and take months to evaporate fully (I am not joking). You can find light, fast-evaporating naphthas but these will cost you many more bucks and you'd hate to see them evaporate away. Not to mention that many people may not have a (secluded) outdoors place to leave their naphthas to evaporate.

Surely different problems arise for different folk, but I see little to none arising if you constantly re-use and back-salt your solvent.

 

[Earthwalker]

Don't no about shadow but I leave mine in the jar in the sun to evap , it happens quite quickly over a few hours as it's only

3+ 50ml parts !!

That is OK-ish even though a waste, if not an extra burden to the environment by all means.

Where I am getting at is that in some countries (like the UK) there is little sun to haste evaporation. And in UK the most readily available naphthas are frequently heavy and take months to evaporate fully (I am not joking). You can find light, fast-evaporating naphthas but these will cost you many more bucks and you'd hate to see them evaporate away. Not to mention that many people may not have a (secluded) outdoors place to leave their naphthas to evaporate.

Surely different problems arise for different folk, but I see little to none arising if you constantly re-use and back-salt your solvent.

I was not aware of this problem and that shows my inexperiance , as I said before I always listen with the intent to learn as much

from senior members as possible and this being another well learnt lesson !

 

[--Shadow]

Interesting to hear about the floating particles that won't settle. I've had that before, and just decanted it to get next time.
I just figured that with 1x50ml pull, there is a heap of colour and gunk that gets absorbed in the NPS, so this obviously is not getting pulled in my first base decant.
I get 1x50ml in the dish evaporating in less than 30mins, I don't know what else I can use it for? Maybe a wash to clean it..


I'll try an extra mini-AB in the next Cyb MaxION tek

So instead of using extra NPS, I use some extra acid and base

 

[DreaMTripper]

A double a/b is a neat way to pull all your spice in one to freeze precip while also conserving solvent.