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extraction questions

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ipumaestro

ipumaestro

catdestined
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ive always thought a/b's were best for cacti, however upon reading another nexians process i find that he bassifies the cacti pulp and lets it liquify for about a day before doing nps pulls

im curious to hear of peoples experience and preference regarding stb or a/b approaches



some cats realized they had best results when stb'ing way back in the day, but only now did they realize that infact they skipped acid cooking entirely during the most primitive (and successful) trials of extraction
 
furthermore

ive heard that letting an nps stay in contact with bassified cacti slurry yields emulsions when left for a few days
because of this idea, some cats have always aimed at wrapping up the process in a half day at most
any thoughts?
 
I'm interested in this, as well. I'm planning on doing an extraction soon, and there doesn't seem to be a cut and dry way of going about it. No easy teks, so I've been designing my own.

I don't have any experience extracting cactus, but it seems to me that if the basic solution is too mucky, without enough water, that's when people run into emulsion problems. I also think it would help to let it is, and be warmed. The sliminess seems to decrease when cooking, and I assume this would be the case if it were basified and kept warm, to let it break down. I would think salt would help break an emulsion, too.
 
this cat is no expert and has been both successful and otherwise for reasons he isnt privy too

waiting for someone like dg/ benz/ phlux/ etc to give a few thoughts
 
ipumaestro said:
furthermore

ive heard that letting an nps stay in contact with bassified cacti slurry yields emulsions when left for a few days
because of this idea, some cats have always aimed at wrapping up the process in a half day at most
any thoughts?
Click to expand...

i've always had emulsion issues if the mix cools down. if you can keep it warm there is no issue with an extraction going on for days or weeks....


i'm a fan of the stb. mainly because a/b takes sooo much longer and involves many more steps.
(slaving over the hot stove and filtering/reducing is tedious)
(ab is best if you have limited solvents or dont plan on saving and reusing solvents for some reason)

typical issues: -not enough base used (you cant use too much) almost equal amounts base to dried cactus is not overdoing it (although i save some to add before my 3-4 pull)
-nps and sludge mixed too violently and before the sludge is broken down(when properly basified separation happens quickly even when violently agitated)
-over acidification during saltings(dirty end product?-this is the biggest single issue i see)
-improper filtration mostly due to emulsions during saltings (be sure you do clean separations of salted water- again- heat is your friend here!)
 
the way iv had most success with - due to the fact that i always use fresh cactus is as follows

prep the cactus discarding the waxy skin, spines and core. the white flesh and green flesh are diced into cubes and put in the freezer overnight.
the next day the cactus is thawed and tossed in an over-sized pot on the stove with ample water and the juice of a half or 1 lemon and brought just to the boil.
as the mix reaches a boil it starts to foam over, its important to watch the pot carefully around this time as it produces massive amounts of foam(hence the over-sized pot).
to handle this i let it foam half way up or more, then remove the pot from heat and let the foam die down, speeding things up by stirring the foam away with a spoon - as soon as its died down(seconds) its placed back on the heat and this is repeated until the tea stops foaming, settles down and behaves like a normal liquid again.

During this process the minimal amount of heat to achieve foaming must be used - depending on the consistency of the cactus flesh(picked when the plant was somewhat dehydrated or old, or when bursting with water) a potato masher may be used.

when the solution normalizes i bring the tea to the mildest simmer - for 1hr or until the color of the cactus goes from bright to cooked looking

the cactus is strained and pressed and placed in the pot with fresh water and some more lemon juice - this is brought to a very mild simmer for 2 hrs then the process repeats a third time but cooking time is 3hr.

after this the cactus pulp can be discarded - the tea reduced to a reasonable amount (mescaline freebase is slightly water soluble so the less the better - but it must be watery not thick) and left in the fridge overnight for the solids to fall out. this creates a perfect drinking tea (if drinking use half a lemon per boil)- or its perfect to do a straight to base on.(use 1 lemon per cook)

so in essence its a a/b but instead of a defat - the things responsible for emulsions are taken care of by the foaming process.

cactus extractions start giving alkaloids fast - usually its worked apon immediately or 30 mins after adding base. but the solution is not discarded that day - its worked on for a few days after adding more base near to the end. cactus will yield pull after pull - for quite some time, less water is very beneficial here.

at the end of each round of pulls the solution is put aside with the np on top - so there are a few long pulls - but they don't seem to give that much more - and they can take up more color this way too.

having a larger surface area - where the solvent meets the water, seems more important than time spent on the solution

slowly mixing the vessel by rocking (as opposed to shaking it )it reduces the time it takes for the np to separate

heat also reduces this time - and if the solvent goes milky - it removes the water responsible and deposits it neatly on the bottom and sides of the vessel making it easy to pour off.

when basifying the juice changes color totally - best to use less base for the first pulls then add base each round of pulls(like each day) until discarded
 
nice one Phlux
what do you think about dropping the basic material drip by drip thru a column(vertical tube containing xylene and back into the extraction vessel) of nps?
(more surfaces exposed= less pulls/time needed for thorough extraction)
 
Oh that's a cool idea!!

It seems to me the pump issue was never solved (at least on the thread). I was thinking maybe you could have two reservoirs, one top and one bottom. They would be identical. The top reservoir would sit above the column of solvent, gravity feeds the dripping. It goes through the column and gravity feeds to the bottom tank. It would only go as long as it takes to empty, but then you could just switch the reservoirs and start again.

There's a few issues, but I think it could work. It would be really cheap, and simple to use. Ima do it!!
 
I figured it out! I drew a picture. The column with the solvent would just need a bend pipe on the bottom. When you initially fill the column with solvent, you would fill it until the level was near the top of the bend. The solution being extracted would displace the water, and drip out. When the dripping is done, the solvent would return to its original level pushing all, or nearly all, of the solution being extracted out into the bottom bucket. Then, you could just switch the buckets, and start over! Simple as pie!
 

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FTLOC!

(for the love of cactus)

pronounced "Foot Lock"



ive been considering the same thing, a really volumous burette of sorts
 
Man! I'm so jacked up, I want to start building it right away! I have stuff to do today, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow. Arg.

The out spout that is bendy doesn't need to be any bigger than a small vinyl hose.

I think I'll build it and write up a tek. This baby is going to be the ticket!! Finally my engineering classes are paying off!
 
something to consider is the dreaded emulsion factor, it could be a deal breaker for this streamlined liquid liquid extraction device
 
ipumaestro said:
something to consider is the dreaded emulsion factor, it could be a deal breaker for this streamlined liquid liquid extraction device
Click to expand...
should be ok if you go really slow
spots where the flow of tubing creates turbulence will be a big issue if the material is cold or not very basic
 
I think it will be ok, as far as the emulsions go. I plan on having it go drop by drop. Emulsions usually happen with too much shaking. I think sing drops should just fall straight through and collect in the bottom.

I plan on building the doodad (technical name) tomorrow, and I know how I'm going to build it. I am going to brew up some known potent cactus, as well. I'll start extraction on monday, and let you know how it goes. I think this should work really well for DMT, also, I hope!

As far as it being worth the effort, well we'll see. I'm going to try to make it out of every-day materials, and it should be relatively simple to make. Hopefully it works!
 
seems to me like this would be effective for very large extractions.

as you could just leave running continuously, swapping tanks and refreshing the solvent column every day or 2.

bring the workload down to a minimum :)

call it the Extract0saurus! hehe
 

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