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Fear and Loathing in spice world?

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halcyon

halcyon

Rising Star
I cannot understand why anyone new to psychedelics would want to try DMT. I do understand why those who have taken things like LSD and mushrooms might find there way to DMT. But even then, if one reads the "trip reports" - I bet only 50% of those who are interested would try it if it was in front of them. The number of people who would actually read the reports and then go on to extract it from a plant - that number must be miniscule. It seems like every drug was at one point "around" me, everything but DMT and other (even more obscure) tryptamines. I never found DMT, nobody even knew of it.

That is a preface to a real question. It seems that trip reports generally fall into too distinct categories - those of overwhelming fear, and those that make you believe the writer is in college (or worse). I don't mean to sound like an arrogant bastard, but that is what I read - or how I perceive it.

It has always seemed to me that bad trips can possibly arise from unforeseen circumstances. I can't imagine what it would be like to catch the curtains on fire when one is under the influence of such a powerful drug. Horrible. I also understand the small group of people who have a whopper of an experience and have great trouble re-integrating. They are a small group, but what they go through must be horrendous. What I don't understand is why it seems so many trips are bad. Perhaps I'm asking because one is in the cards.. who knows.. On the flip side, I am experienced with things going sour - but they have gone sour very little in comparison to the times that they ranked as some of the best time I have spent within myself.

So, this question goes out to the old hands here. On a 1-10 scale (where 1 is better than the waking state you left, and 10 is anxiety which could send you over the edge for GOOD) - can you give me a rough idea of what your experience has been? Say, you've taken DMT 100 times. Of that 100 times, how many times rated >7 on my negativity scale?

Again, I'm not trying to be an ass - but I would prefer to hear from those who have taken either large quantities of drugs like LSD (>300 micros), mushrooms (>3.5g), or DMT - AT LEAST 50 times.

Thanks for reading, and please, if you consider yourself very experienced, please post!

h
 
ok..here...SWIM has taken acid many many times..hes taken mushrooms many many times..hes taken 2C's many many times...hes taken LSA many times..toad venom many times..salvia a few times(she does NOT like to be smoked)..these are most likely up in the hundreds per substance...hes also smoked dmt at least 80-100 times in the passed year and half..maybe more..who keeps count anyway..hes smoked bufotenine and 5-meo-dmt...hes mixed lsd with dmt....lsa with dmt...2ce with dmt...mushrooms with dmt...and harmala alkaloids with dmt...hes also take pharmahuasca many times..he really likes combining these drugs together...now..you get the point..hes got plenty of experience..hes not in college anymore..he dropped out to follow his calling...

he has only had...well...none have been that bad...when he mixed salvia and dmt..that was pretty weird...but SWIM would have to say that hes only been afraid..really afraid..MAYBE half a dozen times...and thats counting just mushrooms..and just lsd...and just dmt..thats all the times hes been sorta scared...but they havent ever been THAT bad...

SWIM doesnt mean to brag...

but as long as you STAY CALM...and just sit there and ride it through..you will be fine..SWIM learned early on that if you just keep yourself together..and calm..and you dont do anything stupid nothing bad will happen to you..

one of the scariest times on DMT was when they asked him to stay with them...this was at the beginning of his experimentation with it...but he learned that it was HIM that got to make the decision..so just keep your head together..and pay attention..and seriously..

only take these drugs when you are in a completely safe environment...dont go out partying on these drugs..stay the fuck HOME!! stay in your comfort area...dont venture..because its amazing how quickly a trip can go sour when you introduce people that arent tripping to the scene...
 
Thanks Jorkest. FYI - the intent of this thread is not to sway me or anyone else as to try or not. There are tons of such threads. I am simply interested in hearing from those SWIY'ers who are extremely mature in this particular sense. Thats it. Nobody should base anything off of these replies. I'm not ; )

h
 
Trip reports suffer from severe bias. I think the proportion of people who get something positive out of DMT use and are moved to write and submit a trip report is much lower than the proportion of people who have negative experiences and want to write a trip report.

There are many reasons for this but among them motivation and personality/maturity are probably key. Consider the mature/responsible/mindful individual. They are more likely to have a positive experience because a) They wouldn't do it if they hadn't thought it through and prepared, b) They've probably done their research and accordingly, c) They've prepared well for setting up a positive experience. This person would be far less likely to write a trip report to add to the saturation of reports and bollocks that abound due to the inexperienced/impulsive/reckless individuals who jump in without checking the depth, cos they read something on the net and think its cool, whose ill-prepared, bad experiences get plastered all over the place with capital letters proclaiming "BE CAREFUL, THIS SHIT IS HECTIC".

DMT is not for everyone. People react differently.

From my perspective, weed has caused more anxiety than dimitri ever has.
 
I truly haven't had a scary experience on DMT, while at times things i saw sort of scared me, like perhaps onces i saw a bunch of black shadowy ghost like figures pointing and laughing at me. Which only lasted for a few moments. DMT happens so fast that i truly don't think it can be good or bad, it's just a mixture of emotions, mostly good. If one is not prepared for his own mind the world pyschidelics creat will be a frightening one.
 
SWIM is new to spice, but has quite a bit of experience with other psychedelics - 100+ acid trips (many with high doses) and a myriad of others (mushrooms, salvia, pcp, mda, etc.) - far removed from college years (just past 40) with long periods of complete abstinence from any and all substances along the way.

SWIM started reading trip reports online, got increasingly interested over the course of many months and then successfully completed his first extraction several weeks ago. He started slowly and respectfully at threshold doses and worked his way up to 60mg breakthroughs. He is preoccupied to the point of complete obsession and struggling to make sense of this new discovery, reflecting a great deal between journies and focusing his intention for the next one. The last few rides, however, have been very scary, where all previous ones were blissful.

SWIM doesn't believe (so far at least) that he is travelling to an alternate objective reality, but rather that the drug serves as a mirror of sorts (like all psychedelics), reflecting the psyche of the user. SWIM is bringing the fear in with him (along with guilt and shame, and a slew of other complicated emotions), and in so doing is getting this back amplified exponentially. There is probably more to learn from the hard ones than there is from the blissful, but both can exist within the same trip, and even within the same moment.

Whether or not SWIM is together enough to get over this hurdle and continue to enjoy the experience is something he's yet to determine, but if not, the issue is completely SWIM's. The drug itself is astounding.
 
Dr Sway said:
From my perspective, weed has caused more anxiety than dimitri ever has.
Click to expand...

If SWIM consumes weed that isn't VERY high grade he is met with extreme paranoia and the inescapable "I think I'm dieing" or "Am I breathing right?" feeling. Of all the other substances SWIM has experimented with only DXM has ever scared him out of his mind.

So he can see where you're commin from.
 
Jorkest said:
but as long as you STAY CALM...and just sit there and ride it through..you will be fine..SWIM learned early on that if you just keep yourself together..and calm..and you dont do anything stupid nothing bad will happen to you..
Click to expand...

very well said.
 
I've always used this analogy. Taking psychedelics is like being given the keys to a Lotus or Ferrari and never having had driving lessons. If you happen to be able to keep the car on the road at 140mph you are ok but many people if not most will end up flying off of the road at 140mph at sometime in their learning to drive experience. There are several techniques that one develops to be able to keep your car on the road at high speeds. The thing with psychedelics is that even if you do fly off your path into a bad trip it won't kill you and if for some reason you continue to take psychedelics you will eventually learn to gently guide your psyche during an intense experience and make it to the come down without it being a catastrophic experience. Setting could cause a very bad trip anyway but at least if you are experienced enough you will stay calm make the best of a bad situation until you do come down.
 
I think possibly all these bad trips are just a domino effect from the first one posting them. Yes the drug is SUPER fucking intense, but in the long run, it is your mind that controls what your experience is like. If you are in a bad mindset, then things will probably go badly. If everything is great then chances are everything will be great. If you read about terrible reports one after another, some kind of fear will stick in your mind and most likely make the experience bad.

Whats so bad about being in college? ;) I am 25 years old though...i feel like a grandpa in class lol...

edit: Oh yeah...I've eaten several psycadelix including LSD,LSA, Mushrooms, 2c-b, e, i, DOC, DOM, and of course the mother of all DMT
 
First, let me apologize. Being in college is not the issue - I meant it more as a signifier for a particular type of person that often frequents boards LIKE this one (but rarely at the nexus itself). I didn't say "mature" because every self-respecting person will generally say there are mature. I know someone who did a lot of psychs in college - 400-600µG at a single go. That person was immature but that isn't what he/she thought at the time! So, 2cb-mine - excuse that bit of profiling.

Uncle Knucles - I tried responding to your message a few days ago but my browser crashed and I lost my post. To be honest, your posts inspired this thread. It was refreshing to see the thoughts of an obviously mature mind trying to make sense of the spice experience. This aspect of "tunneling" or using other people's experiences to subtly (and normally, unconsciously) guide your own experience seem very powerful. You've done a great job of describing SWIY's experience. I look foward to reading more. I have a foaf who could not agree more with you. Granted this person is nearly a positivist, but sometimes, certain experiences trascend months if not years of "waking" consciousness. That is impossible to ignore. If you have not met "The Varieties of Religious Experience" by the philosopher, William James - I highly recommend it.
 
2cb-mine said:
Whats so bad about being in college? ;) I am 25 years old though...i feel like a grandpa in class lol...
Click to expand...

Preach it friend, I just turned 25 a few months ago and ive already started telling people stories about what it was like when i was a kid...
 
I'm 38 and have tripped on lsd, shrooms, dmt and a whole bunch of the other party drugs...LOTS.... here's what i have to say:

A trip without fear is a trip not worth having.

What the heck man, you think I do psychedelics to experience waves of pleasure? If i want that, I take ecstasy or ghb and hit a 4/4 beat in a club with girls around me... but the psychedelics... mush/lsd/dmt/salvia... christ.. i do them to suffer my soul! I do them to challenge my very existence and twist my brain into a new form. I do it for creativity...for the unsual..for the intensity... i do them to be reborn! But i do not do psychedelic for pleasure of all things... thats not to say I don't experience pure JOY as a result from the experiences, and laugh a shitload from the ironies of perception.. shit, i love that, but it's not pleasure to be rated on a scale like a lapdance.

The question is moot but for to underscore my point I'll rate my most terrifying experiences in which i though i was dead, dying, or had left my body permanently a sold 10+ and the easy trips in which i saw cartoons and laughed and wondered about the beauty of nature, nahh.. somewhere between 6 and 8.
 
I think the reason that all the trip reports you read are negative is because those are the ones that make a good story. I wrote my first post today because I wanted to see if anyone had heard of the kind of negative experience I had. It's what makes for interesting discussion and good questions, whereas the positive trips end up sounding common, even if they are talking about the most extraordinary experience anyone can undergo.

I only scored 7+ twice on your negativity scale. I guess that figures to about 1 out of 10 on my 20 or so times smoking D.
 
I have smoked DMT around 50-60 times, taken LSD in high doses (400ug-1mg+) four times, and have eaten mushrooms in quantity of 3.5-5g five times. I am able to count the "bad" trips I have had on DMT on one hand, and EVERY SINGLE ONE had to do with my setting. Either there were too many people or too much noise around me, or I was going into the trip with the wrong intention. DMT doesn't change your thought processes, even though you may feel novel emotions or thoughts when receiving the various phenomena--this includes perceived contact with entities, ego death, etc. I think people who have bad experiences with DMT do not understand exactly what it is or what it does. You can tell some people that DMT makes you start tripping within seconds and they will immediately express vehement apprehension at ever going near such a substance. All my psychonaut friends who read about DMT numerous times with me in the past simply said "Sounds scary, maybe later in life if it ever comes around." I was the one who immediately started planning an extraction and reading the plethora of literature on the molecule. Fear is absolved through understanding and the thing about DMT is that one must understand where it is taking you before you succumb to the voyage. The destination is open to interpretation, however apprehension and going into the trip with a preconceived notion of what will happen to you and subsequent expectation(s) is what leads one into a journey that is out-of-control. Toking the spice necessitates respect and relinquishing control is a big part of that. Unfortunately DMT still has a cult status as this intimidating, scary, mysterious drug for only the most foolhardy. It is sad how far this is from the truth. It is closer to a tonic for the soul than anything else.
 
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