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Fear and Trembling

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Bill Cipher

Bill Cipher

Rising Star
OG Pioneer
Artist
Okay, here’s a question for the peanut gallery; for those who have had the full DMT experience (whatever that is), do you find yourselves less afraid of death as a result… or more?

With his new found belief in the possibility of a true universal consciousness, SWIM finds himself much of the time actually leaning towards more. The concepts of eternity and infinity are somehow more tangible to him than before, having now had what feels like many small previews of what both might actually be. Could be it’s because the experience for him has never been strictly love and kisses (but rather incomprehensible beauty and terror delivered in equal measure), or it’s the certainty that he has only just scratched the hyperspatial surface - but the idea of spending FOREVER in such a place really does shake him up.

It’s the seemingly bottomless depth of the experience that both fascinates and scares the shit out of him. It’s his complete inability to fathom its meaning that compels him to press on regardless.
 
Funny you should ask this, SWIM has been thinking recently that he is less afraid of death now. Less afraid of anything in fact. He still wants to stay alive as long as possible, but he is less afraid of the prospect of his own death because he feels as if he has experienced it already many times over.

Still, he is trying out the practice of assuming he is immortal, just in case the world is shaped by belief! ;)
 
SWIM tried an interesting exercise while tripping recently. SWIM tried to image a world without SWIM. What would it be like if SWIM stopped existing. It was difficult to do but the acceptance of that end was rewarding in the sense that it gives SWIMs life more meaning now.

Anyway for SWIM dmt was the end all of spiritual beliefs. Most people get the opposite effects from dmt but for SWIM it was the final straw. If a substance can so profoundly alter our senses it shows that we have no soul and our subjective reality is all in the mind and without the mind there is no reality for that individual. Again thats SWIMs personal interpretation.

Its taken SWIM a couple years to accept that but so far SWIM feels good about it. So I guess dmt forced SWIM to look at death and accept it as best as SWIM could.

If the dmt world resembles what some consider an afterlife and you want to imagine what its like always being in some similar state ask someone who is insane.
 
For SWIM, it had completely reversed: now he basically experiences himself as an eternal core covered by several layers of personality structure. So death is not a problem any more, actually SWIM sometimes thinks he'd be happy if he could leave (getting back to infinity, without all these pesky layers which so much overcomplicate that which should be the simplest thing in the world).

Interestingly, all of this doesn't make SWIM enlightened: it's just that during that particular trip SWIM was deconstructed down to the core and then reconstructed back in such a way that the core belief upon which everything else is built was swapped (like going back into the Yin-Yang on the black side and coming out on the light side). Now in the core he is convinced that everything is okay, while the layers of ego do everything they can to prove this otherwise.

Watching SWIM's life unfolding, he sees that there may be a point in having those layers, after all. His destiny may be to find out what they are good for.
 
Uncle Knucles,

Great thread!

SWIM has been (at least temporarily) tranformed by the spice. Part of this transformation is a belief that consciousness in a higher, more stripped-down form, exsisted before our births and will exist after our deaths. SWIM cannot explain this using science or rationality as she knows it. It stems from her profound mystical-realm experience . . . as well as a couple of other ones. The thing about these unique experiences for SWIM is the complete and utter certainty that she is perceiving a timeless realm beyond life, beyond death . . .This is a complete 180 for SWIM . . .

Again, SWIM stresses the pure timelessness of these realms. Consciousness exists but the experience of it is different, not traditionally sense-based, it does not "flow." It seems to SWIM that concepts like eternity and forever have absolutely no meaning in such realms. All is one - the past, present and all futures are right there, literally focused to a point . . .

It also seems to SWIM that there is no emotionality to such realms other than ecstacy/bliss. There is no judgement, no right and wrong, no perceivable difference between good and evil. Though this may sound crazy, SWIM believes it is just another indicator of how absolutely small and petty we truly are . . .SWIM does have values but she believes these "afterlife" realms are at such a higher dimensional level that the concepts we have created (right/wrong/good/evil) here in slow-time have no meaning. Very hard to explain . . .

SWIM used to fear death terribly but then came to accept it (her death, the death of her loved ones, the death of everything to the point of the end of the Universe - so terribly expanded that even if there were suns their light would never reach each other . . .). Accept it knowing deep in her heart that death was the end, worms all the way down as she liked to put it. She believed the subjective experience at the time of death for most people was that their consciousness would already be altered by pain (she knows A LOT about this particular subject); soon thereafter everything "recedes" a bit, is more distant, including the pain and fear; followed by a loss of vision and then hearing. Fade to black. Like the perfect medical anaesthesia experience, but forever.

A bit nihilistic? Hell yes.

SWIM has been converted by of all things an intentional, concentrated dose of a neurotransmitter . . .she knows this but the conversion remains solid. She knows in her deepest soul that there is a part of our consciousness that is already there . . .at death this experience which is sensory and time based, will end (savor every single moment!) but consciousness in some other form, a purely ecstatic, all-one form will join with . . . crap, SWIM doesn't know what . . . the Eschaton, the Source, . . . SWIM considers herself fairly well read and educated but she did not receive any education on anything like this . . .she is still searching for language as well as some sort of understanding.

This is the "crutch of religion," and SWIM is leaning on it for the first time in her life. Consciousness transcends death and returns to the ecstatic, unified realm(s) . . .Death is still sad and tragic and we do loose a lot. But, it is not the end. What a wonderful feeling . . . SWIM had the existential/nihilistic belief system in place from about age 12 onwards . . .the conversion has lasted for two weeks and two days . . . time will tell how this plays out . . .

SWIM believes that even if it is worms all the way down or if things are intense/insane/unknowable/miserable "on the other side" there is really nothing to fear . . .

Peace & Love,
Pandora
 
DMT isn't the land of the dead. Death is nothingness. The end of your senses and perception. No time. No hyperspace. A silence I am quite looking forward to.
 
You know Art, I think that DMT is of the living. All the wonders and possibilities good and terrible are of the living. I think that I've experienced what death is like a few times in the last couple of years. I had dental surgery , a colonoscopy and an endoscopy where they gave me propofol ( the stuff that Michael Jackson died of). Each time it was like I was starting to get drowsy, then the doctor looked at me and said that the procedure was over and that I could go home. An hour or more had passed and I was totally unaware of it. I think that this is what the infinite amount of time before being born was like and what death will be like. I think that dying is of the living and can be quite terrifying. I am in awe and I fear the infinite possibilities of life, the dmt experience and dying. Death itself has become a much more docile creature.
 
I have less fear of death, but this is because I have faith that what I have seen behind the DMT veil is truth and not a mirroring of my mind.
 
I'm not saying that I believe DMT to be the land of the dead. I don't really have the slightest clue what it is I believe it to be - and the more I go, the less I know. It's just the complete and utter inscrutability of the experience that has caused my own personal shifts.

The only thing I'm sure of as a result of my (now many) travels, is that we (all of us) know very little about anything. The experience FEELS like a return to the collective. It FEELS 100% real in the moment. None of this means that it actually is, but it's the closest I'll most likely ever get - unless death holds something similar. And having been to a space of such utter believability - a space which truly FEELS like a timeless union with God - it is hard to imagine the death of the body as being the end of the line.

Just as an aside: Many of SWIM’s travels have been made in conjunction with harmalas – which tend to dramatically ratchet up his level of introspection - especially in the aftermath. It feels like every time he goes with the aid of caapi extracts, for an hour or so afterwards he is fairly preoccupied with his mortality – and not in a quizzical or enlightened what comes next kind of way, but rather in a fearful, clinging to his meatsack, not at all eager to go kind of way.

Pandora - Your posts read like your brain has been set on fire. They're fun to read. Soak up all the mystery you can.
 
The only thing I'm sure of as a result of my (now many) travels, is that we (all of us) know very little about anything. The experience FEELS like a return to the collective. It FEELS 100% real in the moment. None of this means that it actually is, but it's the closest I'll most likely ever get - unless death holds something similar. And having been to a space of such utter believability - a space which truly FEELS like a timeless union with God - it is hard to imagine the death of the body as being the end of the line.
Click to expand...

Well, if I were in your shoes, I'd just accept that it's real and live/think accordingly (that's what I did in my life). I know that my mind has a rational part which can come up with any number of objections against THAT. If I'd restrict myself to use only my rational part, I could argue the possibility of it being real. But why would I do that? I'm first a human being, and a rational thinker only secondarily.
 
I have been extremely curious about death for a long time!!
In some ways, I can't wait!! I'm in no way suicidal or anything, just so anxious to see what's what.
I'm 100% sure this is what started & continues to drive my interests in psychedelics...the actual altering of the senses.
I mean, it's the one real question!! The only important answer!

DMT didn't start this fascination in me & I don't really believe any longer that the DMT experience has anything to do with death (I did sort of think that for a while), other than the fact that it seems to allow you to open up or expand consciousness to the point of either witnessing, or creating entire new worlds of senses...behind closed eyes!!
There is some kind of connection there, but as powerfully overwhelming as a full on DMT breakthrough can be, I think to say that it is all that death holds for us, is incredibly small & constricting of the idea!!
I should hope that death will be even more foreign & new...yet familiar!!!

I do not think that our meat-brain is responsible for everything.
I do however feel like it is a kind of receiver, or decoder for our consciousness, accepting & passing only the necessary elements of our being through, into the physical body. Allowing our consciousness to drive this meat-car body & get around in this 3 dimensional, physical reality.

I just don't feel 100% like my thoughts necessarily come from my brain, but instead emanate from around that general area... (man, that's harder to explain in type than you'd think:oops: )
I remember sitting in my room when I was like 6-7 yrs old & thinking about this same thing. Sitting there playing with my toys & started thinking about how I was merely controlling my body like I would my bike, or a car.
I also used to sit & think about where it was that my thoughts came from. I used to mess around back then with trying to make my thought process (that inner monologue) come from my hand or my leg instead of seeming to come from behind my eyes.
BTW, I have also had this same effect happen spontaneously while nearing the end of a vaped DMT+Harmalas experience's afterglow.

Anyway my point is, that although DMT was not responsible for my fascination with consciousness & death, it has effected it & triggered specific memories of times when I was sitting around as a kid...7yrs old & younger...with these exact same concepts of life, death, time & consciousness running through my thoughts.
DMT has at very least helped me to understand how these physical body's could be only temporary...I think...

I feel that my consciousness is more than a result of chemical reactions in my brain.
I also feel that DMT is not just altering the brains processes like Burnt mentioned. Some other drugs...yes...but DMT has always felt so extremely natural to me, more than chemical & almost familiar.
Even LSD & mushrooms feel like a chemical alteration in (to) my body, but DMT doesn't & never has for me.
As cliche as it sounds, DMT feels like more of a key, or completion of a circuit to me.

Interesting topic!
I can't wait to die & know for sure!!!! Or not know...& just be done with it!


WS
 
Great thread.

One thing SWIM knows for sure, is that DMT has made him so much more accepting to, well, just about everything, and certainly this includes death. He realizes now that fear is counterproductive to [enjoyment of] life, and in general, has learned to disregard it in daily life. Fear is used to control, we all know this, so why let it control you? On the subject of death, it is now something that SWIM does not fear. If death is imminent and unchangable, he's gonna go out with pure peace and acceptance. SWIM has absolutely no clue what lays after this life, but is ready for anything, while also ready for nothing. If you would have asked SWIM this question half a year ago, he probably would have said nearly the same thing - but also, probably would NOT have put it into practice if this situation arose. Things are now different.

Whatever comes, why not greet it with positivity and love? What do you have to lose? If you have a scary 'problem' in front of you, you have many ways to react to it, don't you? But in the end, you still have to deal with it. You always do. So why not deal with it the best way possible? Positivity is that way for SWIM. This is what he's has been practicing for the past few months of his life, and it really works for him. Even in potentially volatile situations.
 
I forgot to add one thing...I'm not afraid of death at all, death is either the release of this heavy fucking meat car-body we have to lug around, or maybe it's just starting all over again new, or just one hell of a peaceful rest!!!
For any of those, or the many other guesses people have I'm basically ready & waiting anxiously...buuuuuuut...it's the actual dieing part that is a bit scary!!!

I would hate to die slowly in a car crash, all broken up & spilling out all over, but trapped under the weight of the car...or something like that. Whoo, that scares the shit out of me!!

I'm afraid of living too long, ya know.
Like living way past the point of being physically active & just laying there all day waiting to die, with people taking care of you etc...
(What a sweet release that would eventually be!!)

Or burning to death!!! That would probably be one of the worst, most horrible feelings as you go out.

Although just plain 'ole growing old & disabled is a close second for me!!
And that is probably what's in store for like 90% of us.:?


OOOOOOOO-K...I think that's weird & depressing enough for now...:oops:


WS
 
How about being buried alive ;)
But that's about the nasty processes before actual death.

DMT greatly reduced my fear of (or worriying about) death :lol:
When coming down from my most extreme DMT trance, I found my own appointment with death completely trivial, something to laugh about. I asked something like 'enough with the chicken shit, show me all the way' and got what I asked for... which was more terrifying and powerful than anything my poor brain could ever have concocted.

This 3d consensus life here is very real and precious, but it's part of a bigger system. A very thin slice... no magic or spirituality involved, just physical laws - or rather: the Rules of the Game... many games can be played.

Even the most rigorous reductionist will have to admit that somehow, the universe managed to experience itself! Hats off to those quarks, leptons, photons etc :)
 
I've always found death fascinating and I look forward to it. Birth is a miracle but I think death is actually even more of a miracle.
But I also enjoy my life even though it can be hard, and I'm not ready to die now. Gotta do some things first and spend more time with my family and friends here now :)
 
I've not had DMT, but still have some thoughts.

Something that scares me is people in hyperspace sometimes feel that they've died, and this can produce a terrible panic for them. So that when they come back to themselves, they feel intense relief and thankfulness.

How terrible would it be if upon death, one experiences something like hyperspace - even if it is just a chemical reaction of the dying brain, and they panic, but never come back to their body and resolve their fear.

Maybe eventually, like in Waking Life, the disembodied consciousness is be able to stabilise itself. Maybe seek out some quiet elf room to gather their wits. Then it could become quite wonderful. Instead of being sucked back to our reality, you can hang out with elves as long as you want - learn their language, play with their amazing toys, and begin a great adventure.

I'd hope it is more like a traditional NDE, where some guide comes and takes charge of the soul.
 
Morphane,

The "terrible panic" of thinking you have died in hyperspace is the egodeath experience. SWIM has had a couple of these. One that terrified her, traumatized her and made her think she was not fit to consume psychedelics. She never made it to the ecstatic "other side." Also, she wasn't completely in hyperspace, but in fact was deluded and dissociated as well as heavily hallucinating on this Earth.

A couple others were egodeath like, but did not involve the panic/fear. More of an acceptance and sinking into it . . .one time this resulted in her "soul" flying over a beautiful "tryptamine landscape" planet, as well as travelling through space.

I've got to say SWIM's most intense hyperspace experiences were with the spice involving full-on breakthroughs. The couple of times she suspected she had died were when she found herself in the utterly ecstatic realms. She didn't think such a place/experience could exist/happen in life (even in her imagination-prone head), thus using what felt like rationality, concluded that she must have died. After this thought occurs, she realizes it is okay, she does not care, she is not fearful, everyone is there or will be there together in the end as one ecstatic union. This is a strong conviction/feeling in hyperspace, as she never actually views/touches/contacts any other people/entities/Gods, etc. She finds herslf "alone" yet "at one with all" in these realms.

My current conclusion is that age and experience helps one tremendously with these types of experiences. SWIM has psychological resources and a powerful sense of humor that she lacked 20 years ago. She was devastated by egodeath at age 21 and delighted by it at age 41.

She does not return to consensual reality with intense relief and thankfulness for finding herself still alive. She is saddened that she is out of the ecstatic realm, but delighted by the fact that she was blessed to experience it. It is true that she does find herslf thankful for this "slow-time" existence and keeps stressing to all around her that every moment should be savored. But, she fully expects to return (upon her inevitable demise) to an ecstatic realm where things like individuality, time and non-ecstatic emotions/feelings have absolutely no meaning.

Peace & Love,
Pandora
 
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