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Fear. How do you deal with it?

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Trickster

Trickster

Esteemed member
OG Pioneer
Chemical engineer
SWIM has had 15 or so spice alone flights, 2 or 3 successful aya journeys and one unbelievably scary rue extract + smoked spice experience that lasted 2 hours. Practically all of these experiences were very difficult. It's been almost a year since the last one.

Although the last one was probably the least frightful she has become so afraid that she cannot cajole herself into blasting off again.

Recently she did try a new, very effective smoking contraption (a combination of a test tube and a labware bubbler) but managed to load only 16 mg of spice. She was not even close to the breakthrough but she's got scared shitless. It was like teetering at the edge of a bottomless pit. Now she is even more afraid. SWIM knows that this fear becomes self-fulfilling prophecy, but she got caught in a vicious circle.

Please share your experience. How do you fellow travellers cope with fear?
 
After the first time, i dont get any sort of fear as such any more :(

Just push on through! The spice will take care of you :) and stay away from rue..
 
Astralking said:
... and stay away from rue..
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Will you please say why? SWIM thought maybe she should try to have a MAOI and then smoke the spice slowly over a dozen shallow inhalations. Thus there would not be the fearful bombshell explosion. She thought of slowly tiptoeing to the edge rather than just jumping headfirst.
 
maybe the fear has nothing to do with the spice itself? maynbe there is something that you are afraid of or havent come to terms with yet and you need to confront that?
 
have faith in pharmacology!

Sounds cliche I know but you need to let go and just acknowledge the fact that YOU WILL COME DOWN..DMT and aya cannot hurt you, everything will end up ok so relax into it..dont try to do things that you cant do while journeying..just lay there in the dark and ride it..

And caapi is much nicer than rue.
 
Please send this message to SWIY:

To my knowledge, rue is considered to be a rough ride compared with caapi. Don't quote me on that though, it's just what I've read.

I think everyone still has a bit of fear before taking off. Whenever I ask myself "should I smoke some tonight?" I get a slight nervous peak and my heart rate rises. Personally, I think it's partly due to what dmt does to the body while your tripping. To my knowledge, it raises your blood pressure and your heart rate. I think my body is associating this with the trip. Also there's an element of unknown which makes me nervous, where will I end up this time? What I've noticed is that I have the best trips when I get the "call". I don't ask myself whether I should smoke tonight, something suggests it to me; tonight is a good night to smoke. This is when I smoke.

What doses are you taking? What exactly happens in your trips that makes you scared? Have you had a full breakthrough dose yet?

I can't really define when I lost most fear of blasting off, but my breakthrough dose probably had something to do with it. I didn't even plan for the breakthrough it just happened, using some yellowish dmt.
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When I first started taking dmt, I got scared after my first 40mg. Halfway through the trip I thought I died, I couldn't figure out what was going on. It was the first time my brain had acted like this, I was amazed that something like this could happen and still come back afterward. The only thing that I started doing differently after this was to simply observe rather than try to make sense of it. I often find myself in the trip saying "that is amazing! What else is here?" and I'll look around too see more of it. I don't try to figure out how it works or why it's there I just examine it in awe.

It's a tough hurdle, but you need to ignore your physical body. I recommend taking doses large enough to remove any knowledge of it. For me, this is 50mg, it may differ. You will be scared, but you can only overcome it by experiencing, in my opinion. You may come across some freakish 4D object that distorts time and confuses you...But next time you see it, you'll know what it is, and you'll remember that it didn't harm you. You'll be able to look at it closer, and see more of it.
 
i JUST responded to a similar question here on the experiences page. i would encourage you to visit it as well...


fear is just the ego trying to avoid it's destruction....

unfortunately it would take a HELLUVA lot more than a DMT journey to have done with that bad boy...the DMT experience is fleeting....and the more comfortable and at peace with surrender you get, the more you lament it's brevity.

you will come back. noone ever DOESN'T come back. you will be awed and you will become more and more willing to check that ego at the door.

i have journeyed HUNDREDS of times. taken all kinds of strong tryptamines and psychedelics from every corner of the globe..and...at the end of the day...MY ego is still very much here. i have, however, through extensive experience with having it wrested from my clutches, become more comfortable in surrendering that ego and, in THIS reality, recognizing that i am much more than this construct i have created.

this is the gift that DMT and conscious exploration as a whole offers. but it's scary at first.... you have to be willing to die in a sense. to give up everything you know.....

there's something i tell everyone i've ever introduced to spice...it goes like this:

"let go of what you think is everything....and you will be rewarded with what truly IS everything."

fortune favors the bold, my soul sister. if you are going pay the tour guide, you HAVE to be willing to go on the tour.

DMT holds out it's hand to you and says, "if you are brave and come with me, i will show you everything...and if you don't stumble and are able to keep up the pace, i will take you so far that you will see that YOU ARE everything!"

once you give it your hand, DMT makes the assumption that you are committed and it GOES. it has your hand firmly held because it wants you to keep up. you simply CANNOT stop and say, "i'm not sure....". you will be yanked forward, trip, fall, and begin getting dragged....

my attitude towards working with DMT may seem a little hardcore, but it's simple and simple has always smacked of truth to me: if you aren't willing to let it all go and be taught, you arent' ready to work with such a powerful teacher.

that being said, one of the best ways to learn how to let it all go is to use DMT...but perhaps with a good meditation beforehand....or pairing the spice with a calming addmixture (cannibis, kava, kratom)...

in the words of the venerable Pema Chodron:

IT IS ONLY TO THE EXTENT THAT WE ARE WILLING TO EXPOSE OURSELVES OVER AND OVER TO ANNIHILATION THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DISCOVER THAT PART OF OURSELVES THAT IS INDESTRUCTABLE.

i personally can't think of a better way to expose yourself to annihilation than to truly break through on DMT....and once you've "discovered" that indestructable part of yourself you have taken a HUGE step in your development as a soul.

LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
 
Fear can be useful in itself!

I don't think I have taken many voyages without at least some sense of trepidation. There's nothing wrong with the fear that can accompany fear, you just have to learn to reach some kind of acceptance.

On one journey I took fear even became an incredibly useful tool. I was (still am!) being harassed by the tax office. They were threatening all kinds of shit to fuck my life up. I had to contact them but was so scared I couldn't bring myself to get in touch. I was really very depressed at the time and was spending most of my time in bed trying to hide from it all.

I blasted off. I had a scented candle going next to me and became worried about how safe it was as I was rapidly leaving reality behind. I blew it out. The most noxious chemical smell invaded by senses. Something deep inside me just created the deepest fear I have ever felt. I was no longer in my room but I could still smell the most incredible chemical stench. Somewhere inside me I decided that my surroundings were on fire, but as I was not in that reality there was nothing I could do about it. I was deep inside, the only thing I could see for the entire journey was the most terrible and disgusting amorphous red blob in front of me. That was all there was along with the most awful sense of fear and danger.

After a few minutes I came back to reality. All was well – no catastrophic fire, the sense of danger was gone. I felt the greatest sense of relief. I have never felt so scared in my entire life as I did during that journey. Realising what I had just survived through and escaped from entirely unscathed I lost all the overbearing sense of fear from the rest of my life. If I can get through that does any of the rest of it really compare? Life really didn't feel that bad when compared to such an awe-inspiring sense of total doom.

After that journey I sorted my shit out (for a while :)) I got in touch with the tax office and stopped hiding in bed so much.

Every trip, beautiful or terrifying is useful. If you love the psychedelic experience you, unfortunately, have to live with the unpredictability of the game. It may make you anxious, but this is normal. You must learn to accept and then you will gain from your experiences, whatever they may be. If you can't live with loss of control psychedelics may not be the tools to use.
 
I dunno, 19 journeys and every one difficult? Sounds like you're really punishing yourself. What is it you're seeking that is so important to put yourself through this, and are there other routes to your goal? Life is too short for self-flagellation! Could you work with mescalito (the spirit of the cactus) for a while instead? Or read a good book on combating fear in the meantime?

(Does anyone have any suggestions of suitable books, I don't know any and there's a lot of dubious stuff in self-help sections? I personally got the idea after reading Introducing Nietzsche, but I've always been relatively brave anyway.)
 
Fear may become a kind of reflex. You can not fight agaisnt a reflex. It comes in reaction to a situation, and the more the situation happens, the more the reflex is reinforced. It is similar to phobias and it may takes a while to be free about such problem. If phobias would be solved in one session by 'just' beeing aware and surrender... shrink could not earn their life :roll:
Sometimes the direct confrontation may works but most often it takes time and slow progress. Be indulgent with yourself and go slowly. You can also be helped by combos with substances that help with anxiety (benzos, kava kava). There is nothing 'wrong' about using them, it is not a contest 😉
 
Hey, admixtures are another idea... I think I remember someone mentioning kava kava pre-launch?
I remember I think Endlessness saying one beer before launch helps? (ONE beer, higher quantities often lead to ego loss to the point of non-existence)
Research well before contemplating admixtures, especially if taking DMT orally due to potential contraindications.
 
Fear is good, it puts you on edge and keeps you attentive, unless perhaps SWIY is experiencing panic. One thing's for sure: Something so fearful as DMT seems to be for you may serve as an immense well of power. That SWIY ascribes such immensely fearful power to the DMT experience denotes respect and veneration.

SWIM has had plenty of terrible anahuasca and smoking experiences, but he always appreciates them after the fact; some of these are even among his fondest psychedelic memories. Sometimes it just requires a foolhardy attitude to take it to the levels that will break one past such obstacles to be fully immersed in the experience.
 
Highly suggest Changa. The harmalas smooth things out and increase the window of time to get the spice into your system. The leaf gives you an easier method of smoking where you can control the potency of each puff. Make a low potency mix (2:1 leaf to spice, or even 3:1 leaf to spice by weight), then smoke a small joint lazily, taking additional puffs at your leisure depending on how you're feeling about the way things are going. Definitely the uber kind method of administration. You don't have to charge towards a breakthrough, you can bump a little with each consecutive puff and feel it out as you go.

If you're curious about harmala ratios compared to spice, swim mixes (by weight) 1 part spice to 1/2 part harmala extracts (usually the harmalas are 50/50 THH and Harmaline).

Good luck, be safe, and remember to smile!
 
jacetea said:
......I've noticed is that I have the best trips when I get the "call". I don't ask myself whether I should smoke tonight, something suggests it to me; tonight is a good night to smoke. This is when I smoke.
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That's what I do too. And sometimes months pass and I don't feel it's the right time. Just be patient. Patience will pay. I you wait the right moment will come. And you will have the most awesome DMT tripp. I take quality over quantity any day. And I'm looking forward for my next DMT trip. I think one is coming on soon :) I've had a little DMT now for months but have not smoked for probably over two months. It just hasn't been the right time. Maybe I'll blast off over x-mas in the x-mas spirit :)
 
well put oha- i've got me a friend who shall remain nameless who has a similar relationship with the spice....he's also incredibly intelligent which keeps him in the loop of "i don't have a particularly healthy relationship with DMT...and yet....and YET....WHAT IS THIS?? WHAT DOES IT MEAN?? WHAT, WHY, HOW, WHO??????"

a very self-abusive quest for an answer that does not exist in this reality (imho). as long as you ask questions, you will be denied entry into the deepest classrooms..... the lighter you pack, the farther you can trek...

sister trickster- working with a less intensive, less demanding of complete surrender, gentler-yet-effective-at-low-doses teacher may be the trick...ster... ;)

a gram of a good cubensis will have you exploring the sub-depths with a sense of love and humor.....cactus is also a gentle teacher at the lower doses....

no need to put yourself through some unnecessary misery to prove something to yourself.....all good things in all good time.

MUCH LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
 
I completely understand The Fear.

It was common, throughout my first year of working with Ayahuasca, to have cleaned the house, fasted all day, smudged, set up completely for ritual... and then... just stare... at the glass... 45 minutes... stomach twisting... oh dear god...

Reaffirmation of intentions, with reflection upon all the positive ways the medicine has impacted my life has been one way around this. I had this epiphany after staring at the glass and quaking in my shoes, when I realized, "Do I ever want to go back to those days where I would sit in my car before work and be ill with anxiety at the thought of getting out?" NO!!!!!!! (So, that makes drinking really simple.)

I basically lost all fear permanently, however, after having my skull formally broken open with Chacruna. My ego died; I completely lost my mind; I had to turn on all the lights; out of 100+ ceremonies, this was one of two where I had to call for my sitter and just sit beside her; I felt so polluted; when I could talk, I kept yelling, "I am never going to do this again!" It made no sense to breathe, to think, I was everything, everywhere, totally beyond any coherence of mind.

Finally... I began to come down. It felt like being in a plane that was landing. I slowly came back to myself, and relished every second of being able to wiggle my toes, recognize them as my body.

I realized that, yes, no matter how far out you go, you really, truly, always do come back.

I suppose the fear before was partially about losing it and being gone; but after having lost it, I realized losing it is just like a breath, a wave, and all times now, when I start to lose it, I just breathe. Staying calm, still, and totally focused on breath keeps everything nausea-free and peaceful, too.

Even when you have lost it, you are never really gone... but, you can't take my word or appreciate it until you lose it and then realize, "Oh, yeah." :p
 
i personally can't think of a better way to expose yourself to annihilation than to truly break through on DMT....and once you've "discovered" that indestructable part of yourself you have taken a HUGE step in your development as a soul.



Thats so funny because for a while I was calling my regular SPice jpurneys Annihilation thursdays. Because thats basically what i was doing to myself. I am better than ever. I really think being in good physical shape is important. It took me a while to build up a trust with the stuff. At first I was nervous but over time I gradually realized FOR MYSELF, thats the key, that the spice would not harm me.
I think over time we develop our own unique relationship with it. It is true that you ALWAYS come back. For me no matter how flattened I've been there always seems to be a positive outcome or series of key revelations.

some of my personal preferences are doing it out in nature away from all man made nonsense including noise .
don't forget to breathe try and stay relax remind yourself it only lasts a short time and you will be fine if not better than when you started. the journey is filled with wonderous things it will not hurt you it will teach you.
 
Trickster:

Please share your experience. How do you fellow travellers cope with fear?
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Firstly by sharing our experiences! Seriously - it will help that you have done so & have seen that you are not alone.

You have received much great advice so far which is worth re-reading several times!

Fear does not exist in isolation- you must be afraid of something. Could you be more specific?

Not sure if it's been said already but jumping back in may push you through this. The more times I come back unharmed, the more I realise that this is a return ticket- nothing really goes wrong out there! If you release to that then that WILL deliver you safely back home. This may require some practice, faith, trust and surrender to pull off.

I began to have 'bad' experiences some months ago. 'The fear' got me. I recall the irony in having finally found the most euphoric, mind blowingly sublime mode of consciousness only to have it snatched away by ugly, ugly fear. My particular fear was that mother of all terrors- my own death. I truly believed that it was possible to become lost in space. That strange place had E X I T written large upon it. It is no such thing- its a revolving door that spits you back into this world.

Intact.

EVERY time.
 
This is a really great thread, lots of interesting viewpoints here. DMT certainly helped dreamer to conquer fear in his own life, he is a lot better off with some of his old worries/neuroses wiped away. But the funny thing is, recently he woke up in the morning and told me that in his sleep he had dreamt that he had a terminal illness and had been just bawling to his mother throughout "I don't want to die!". Which was funny, because when awake sometimes he imagines his dying as being almost a happy event, surrounded by family like an astronaut about to embark on a great exploration that he had trained his whole life for. I guess you can never escape the fear of death entirely, it is part of who we are. But the 'ego death' of DMT certainly does put pettier fears into perspective, and I think that's one of the major lessons.
 
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