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First time pharma

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Librarian

Librarian

Etienne
Last night I went for my first pharma trip. I used 3 grams of Syrian Rue tea (my harmala extraction was still evaporating, and I had to improvise). Also 50 mg of dmt freebase, disolved in OJ and taken five minutes after the rue.
I was trying to emulate Gibran2 as reported here , which is why I settled on 50 mgs.

Even though I was thoroughly moai'd, I didn't really experience anything. No visuals. No body load. Some stabbing pains in my stomach for a while, but that might be because I had been fasting all day. I was constantly stretching myself like a cat, feeling utterly contented. Then I started to get really tired, so pulled some blankets over me. I fell asleep an hour and a half after ingestion.

Falling asleep like that is strange, since it was only 8 o'clock at night, and I had been excited about the trip since the beginning of the week. What could have caused it ? Possibly the rue's fault ? It definitely wasn't boredom or exhaustion.

I also know that the dmt-dose necessary for pharma varies wildly from person to person. I guess I had hoped I would fall near the bottom of that scale. :? Oh well. Oh yeah, I am 6.6 feet tall, and weigh 110 kg, if that is a factor.

I will be trying again tonight, of course. I know I should probably just take 75 mg, but I am tempted to just go for broke and take an even 100 mg. If 50 mg didn't do anything, it doesn't seem likely that 75 would cause any visuals. Do you think it wise ? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Much love.
 
harmalas can be slightly sedative, specially harmaline, so if your rue contained a significant ammount of harmaline it can be the reason why.

I would say next time dont fast, but rather eat lightly during the day. Also try taking the dmt together with the rue, and try 75mg.. I know for me, I need 200mg for a decent pharma experience, maybe because of my very fast metabolism... Maybe you are like me, but before you increase too much, try taking it together. Jorkest swears by eating a piece of bread with butter just after ingesting it all, though I personally didnt notice much difference.

I also suggest having your smoking device loaded with a dose, and then you can do a vaporization launch if the oral dmt isnt enough, and make use of the harmalas that will be in your body
 
Thanks. Good advice.

I have been eating litchis today, and will probably have another handful at sunset. Wil have some right after ingestion too.

As for the sedative effect of harmaline, I guess I will just have to fight it until the dmt kicks in. I'm sure I won't be falling asleep at that point :)

I will take your advice tonight, and just take 75mg. Good idea about having a loaded bong ready. Will do so. But how long will the harmalas be in my body ? Or in other words, how long do I have to vape the dmt if the oral administration wasn't enough ?
 
I guess it depends on your metabolism but if you smoke anywhere from 1-3 hours after ingesting (maybe more), you will probably notice the action of the harmalas affecting the launch (I specially notice during the comedown, which lasts much longer).

I might be joining you tonight if I solve some stuff I have to. In any case, good luck and do post back!
 
endlessness said:
I guess it depends on your metabolism but if you smoke anywhere from 1-3 hours after ingesting (maybe more), you will probably notice the action of the harmalas affecting the launch (I specially notice during the comedown, which lasts much longer).

I might be joining you tonight if I solve some stuff I have to. In any case, good luck and do post back!
Click to expand...


Oh, plenty of time then:d

Thanks again for the advice. I'm off for home now, so excited. I will post how it went.

Happy trippings !
 
Librarian said:
Thanks. Good advice.

I have been eating litchis today, and will probably have another handful at sunset. Wil have some right after ingestion too.

As for the sedative effect of harmaline, I guess I will just have to fight it until the dmt kicks in. I'm sure I won't be falling asleep at that point :)

I will take your advice tonight, and just take 75mg. Good idea about having a loaded bong ready. Will do so. But how long will the harmalas be in my body ? Or in other words, how long do I have to vape the dmt if the oral administration wasn't enough ?
Click to expand...

Do not fight the sedative effect. You shouldn't fall asleep either, but you shouldn't be fighting the sleepiness (I know that this sounds like a contradiction). Personally whether I've used caapi or rue (I usually use rue - same amount 3g) I usually become incredibly sleepy. This happened when I tried ayahuasca too. Was one of the most intense sleepy feelings of my life. Now I just roll with it and it's all the better. Instead of fighting the sleepiness (as I did with ayahuasca where at one point I found myself crawling around my house simply because I was too debilitated to walk), I now just accept it, sit back and enjoy the show. I can see how falling asleep if you don't have visuals might be a very viable option, and I wouldn't argue with you there, but even with the visuals it can still be quite sleepy. You shouldn't try and fight any feeling you get from the experience. It will simply lead to frustration and it seems to me that this is where bad trips start for most people: they try and fight some feeling/emotion that arises. Roll with everything.

Also as endlessness said, have some spice loaded up and ready to smoke. Best to get it set before, or while you're waiting to come up because once you need to smoke it, you may find that it's a lot harder to manage than you thought. Based on your preparation (like mine) it sounds quite nauseating. Usually what I do is to wait an hour or so coming up as the nausea slowly builds. Then around an hour after ingestion, I usually feel ready to purge. I'll get up, go to the bathroom, purge, go back out in the living room and grab the pre-loaded GVG. Then usually one or two hits are all I need to really get the ball rolling. Often times this makes me need to puke one last time, and I'm usually prepared for this. Smoking the spice at this point can often be a way to get rid of any residue nausea by throwing up again that I wasn't able to completely get rid of when I puked the first time. This usually leads to the most euphoric, visual part of the trip, but I should warn you of several things: if you gotta puke that second time after smoking the spice, the images I see in the bathroom as my eyes wince shut with my head hanging over the toilet are the most twisted images (literally twisted like tornadoes of fractals) I've ever seen ever. Also the "smoked effects" which to me are quite distinct from the pure pharma can last quite a while before you find yourself back at where the pharma left you. I don't need to sound negative, as smoking the spice after an initial purge is my favorite part, but it can be quite scary too. Always telling myself as crazy as this is, I know nothing's going to happen to my body or mind, and they will be preserved (at least by the time I come down 😉 )
 
@ gobalswg – Are you saying that you purge when using pharma or aya? Isn’t the whole point of pharma to avoid the purge? Also, do you feel you “force” the purge, or does it come naturally? I’ve had some intense nausea during most of my pharma experiences, yet it never reaches the point where I feel the need or desire to purge.

@ Librarian – Like you, I’m still trying to figure out an ideal pharma dose. Lot’s of variables to deal with: enough caapi to provide full MAO inhibition, yet not so much to provoke distracting nausea; enough DMT to provide the DMT “vision space”, but not so much as to add to the nausea or propel one too deep (something I haven’t yet experienced with pharma). It’s a balancing act that I haven’t figured out yet.
 
I took the 75 mg on, taken mere moments after the rue tea. I was ready for the sedative effect this time. Sitting up instead of lying on my bed helped a lot.
I had nice visuals, but not too strong (possibly very mild by other people's standards). I didn't vape any dmt on the trip though, since I was feeling very comfortable with the pharma dose as is, and didn't want to jinx it.

A good first time. I did felt that I could go a bit deeper though. Next time I will try 90 mg. A hundred might still be too strong for now.

@ gobalswg – I felt a bit of nausea early on, but it soon passed. Thankfully no purge. I've not had a purge from DMT yet, but it sounds scary, and I suppose its only a matter of time. I have some red caapi on its way to me, so for comparison I will try ayahuasca too. Though even then I will use olympus mon's method of binding tannins with egg white in order then lessen the chances of a purge.

@ Gibran2 - I agree, it will take a few tries to work out the best methods. I'm just slowly going to up the dmt dosage, in small increments. It does worry me thought, the fact that perhaps I have been under-inhibited so far, and then suddenly get it right, only to have my mind smeared across the cosmos :) .

Thank you all for the good advice.
 
Nice that you are slowly finding your dosage, Librarian! By the way, regarding nausea, before ingesting the dmt just chew and swallow some fresh ginger, as it has galanolactone, a 5-ht3 inhibitor (and 5-ht3 signalling in the guts is in big part responsible for nausea). Just dont only make a tea but swallow the ginger because galanolactone apparently isnt water soluble.

good luck and keep us informed once you do try again!
 
I will remember that. Ginger is so cheap too! Will get some rhizomes for my next time. I also read that 2 datura seeds will help (though that might be for cactus). Will also have to wait till winter till I can find some though.

At least ginger won't make you go blind if you take too much.
 
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