First time STB MHRB (brown goo)

[intoThVoid]

First time STB which has resulted in brown goo as pictured:

https://imgur.com/a/ZioQ1eg

SWIM followed simple STB tek with a ratio of 1:1



After SWIM added NaOH to MHRB it was still quite hot and SWIM immediately added their Naphtha alternative (swan lighter fluid)

SWIM left for 24hrs swirling and reheating heat-bath every 3-4hours.



SWIM siphoned the naphtha into roasting tray and let it evaporate by placing a fan on low speed beside tray.

1 hour later it had evaporated and SWIM was left with what you can see in the picture.

SWIM then stuck tray in freezer for 12hours which did not change the appearance of the brown goo (except there is now a few yellow/white crystals which have formed)



First STB - It smells like a brand new pair of shoes or of a summers day with high pollen.



Is this safe to sandwich and smoke or should SWIM look at reX?

 

[Nydex]

Hi there!

I am no extraction expert by any means, but I'll give you my 2 cents and let the more knowledgeable folk around here follow up

First using lighter fluid by most popular brands - SWAN, Zippo etc - is not the best option. I've tried evaporating most of the readily available brands on the market and most of them leave a greasy smelly residue on the mirror, which is a big red light for extraction.

I've had good success with pure petroleum ether which you should be able to buy from a lab supply shop in your town.

Second - I think you are supposed to wait a bit after adding the base to the plant material, as it needs some time to eat through the cells and destroy all plant matter in the mix, releasing the contents of cells in the liquid. Most teks advise to wait at least 1 hour, with frequent swirling and shaking, before adding the NPS. That way you're guaranteed to capture the most alkaloids with the NPS.

Third - I haven't heard of the technique to fully evaporate the NPS, and then put into freezer. Most people suggest it's best to evaporate around 70% of the NPS until it's getting a bit thicker and milkier, and then placing that in the freezer, as a more saturated NPS solution will help the better precipitation of crystals on the bottom of the tray.

What you're smelling is good - that's what you aim for. I can clearly see a good amount of crystals formed under the goo, so you definitely have product in there. However with the amount of goo and the method you acquired it by, I would suggest a recrystallization that would yield fresh white crystals for you.

Sandwiching what you have right now sounds like a bad idea, given what NPS you used. Better go the safer route, recrystallize and go into hyperspace with a calm mind and clean product.

Last but not least - using SWIM in 2019 is pretty much pointless. Nobody does it anymore.

I hope some of what I said was useful to you. Take care, and please share your experiences with us once you've had them.

Be brave. Be well. Spread the love.

 

[Asher7]

If you try again, give it a go without heat. There’s a chance that will do a fair bit of clean up by itself. Depending on how brown it is, if you think you have base sludge look up a sodium carbonate clean up and if you think it’s just plant fats put it in some hot naphtha, let the thicker oil settle and decant the solvent out to re-x in the freezer.

If your solvent is bunk I don’t know how you get any residue out of there. It’s real important to make sure your solvent is clean.

Real quick, the thick oil that settles if you do a hot naphtha re-x, do you guys think that would be good material for changa?

 

[sousa]

I think the heat and the lack of time before adding the solvent are hurting you. Letting the MHRB soak in the base solution for at least an hour, with a good half dozen shake ups is a good idea. Up to 24 hours is even better in my opinion. Then add slightly warmed naptha or lighter fluid if your using that. Then let it sit in there for no more than an hour with a few light swirls here and there and gentle turning upside down here and there. Then first pull, and repeat. It has always worked pretty well for me. I soaked the MHRB with just enough white vinegar to almost float it for 20 to 30 minutes recently, then added the water and lye, then onto the above method. It increased the yield for sure to my surprise. The only thing was the crystals were a good shade of yellow instead of the usual white. I think the vinegar soak increased the yield by nearly 20% of what I was getting before. I am going to try it again to be sure I'm actually improving with the vinegar presoak, but I'm pretty certain it worked well.

 

[Th Entity]

Very easy solvable problem and clearly lack of interest in learning the process
I would like to help, but i feel like its not a very good idea to repeat already said things(other members already did it for us, we dont even have to think the processes ourselves, just read and repeat.) You can find all the solutions to your problems here on the Nexus.

Tip: Dont be surprised and disappointed with your result after all, the effort you put into it is the result you got. :thumb_up:

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

Very easy solvable problem and clearly lack of interest in learning the process

(we dont even have to think the processes ourselves, just read and repeat.) You can find all the solutions to your problems here on the Nexus.

While I appreciate the sentiment - the two bold statements are rather contradictory. Lack of considering new approaches leads to stagnation. In three - four years, I think that most teks will be adjusted to add IMPROVED quantitative amounts of material and reagents. For example: the claim that adding more NaOH is going to help break an emulsion. Actually... maybe not. As more NaOH is added to the solution, viscosity increases and will make it MORE difficult for separation.

Also, the amount of NaOH suggested, in the popular teks, is absurd! Even in 1 liter of water, way overkill and wasteful. I understand why people have written them as such - most won't take the time to bother monitoring pH though out the process. I think the authors assume most people will read [half of] the tek and just start dumping chems in. And... that's happened. Lol.

But, pH and pOH have a logarithmic relationship with concentration (molarity). One mol of NaOH is roughly 40 grams. Ok, cool - molarity is determined by dividing the amount of NaOH (mols) by the volume of the solution (liters). So, let's say you use a mol of NaOH (~40 grams) and one liter of total solution: 1 mol / 1 Liter = 1 mol/L (this is a solution that has a concentration of 1 M (Molarity).

pH or pOH can be related as: pOH = -log(OH); pH = -log(H); and pOH = -log(1 M NaOH) = 0... but, pH and pOH are complimentary. The pH = (14 - pOH) = (14 - 0) = 14.

The concentration needed to achieve a specific pOH or pH can be as followed:
[H] = 10^-(pH) ; and [OH] = 10^-(pOH)....

So, let's assume you want a pH of 13. (A.k.a. pOH of 1)

[H]= 10^-(13) = 1.0x10^−13 M ; [OH] = 10^-(1) = 0.1 M.

Ok, so we need 0.1 M solution of NaOH. So M = (mol/L) ; then (M)(L) = mol.

We know that the volume is 1 L. We know the molarity is 0.1 M, so (0.1 M)(1 L) = 0.1 mols.

NaOH has a M.W. of ~40 grams/mol. So, 40 (g/mol) * 0.1 (mol) =....... wait for it..... wait for it.... 4 grams.

People have been adding 50 grams!!!!!! That's 10x more than theoretically needed. I decided to test the theory - you can see the results here. (Also, I never updated the final results - I performed a second pull - smashing the old yield percent of ~1.4 %..... we're well over 2 %, now.... 2 pulls, ~ 10 grams of NaOH)

So, before "just read and repeat" - ask, "why?" Why are the teks designed with such inefficiency and wastefulness?" If you even used 10 grams of NaOH, you'd be fine. So, my theory is that most people DO read and repeat (or try, lol). Only a few ask why.

Take care,
ACY

P.S. - if any of the above seems like alien language, just ask. I'll try to simplify it if I can, but I think it would be most rewarding to dig into the topic and learn what the explanation means, rather than the simple answer.

 

[Th Entity]

Yees im sorry @intoThVoid i was kinda harsh on you but there are too many topics every week on the basically same "problems", excuse me! I now rarely post new threads, i rather "revive" older threads and ask my questions there.

ACY thats true, thats correct i agree!
:thumb_up:

 

[AcaciaConfusedYah]

Yes Th Entity,

I agree on that front, as well. I'm guilty of: seeing the date that the original thread was posted (maybe even from 2016), see the number of replies (maybe 4-6 pages) and then i'll assume that the question being asked in the revival has already been answered in earlier posts. It may have been - someone might have answered it 2 pages prior. But, I'm less likely to reply to the older threads. I guess I just assume it's already been said. I'm often wrong - maybe the most recent post was not an answered question, but a new question that was asked about post number 42 on page 3. Perhaps that is a flaw of mine - the assumption that everyone is working towards improvement. In respect, that is flawed thinking (of my own) because some of the new folks are just trying to get started - how can they improve something that they know nothing about? So, I'm trying to be patient and either type an excruciatingly long post, or direct them to the information that they are looking for.

Hell, it really cracks me up when I've replied to one of the older thread, at some point, and forgotten that I had given the advice I had. Then I start to question my own advice.

I've posted a drytek thread, a few years back, that I cringe when I re-read (I need to edit that thing). It's fine, by most standards, but I'd since raised mine. The tek is functional, but the lack of safety disclosure is concerning. I guess I was more reckless back then; I guess we all start somewhere.

I remember my first extraction. "K, so, first i'll add some salt, cause it's got the word 'salt' in the title. Then i'll, wait... this says add vinegar first... o well, it's all going to the same place, eventually, right? Hmmm.... this says add 50 mL of vinegar... surely that can't be right... ah-hah! I have an idea - i'll add a half cup! Hmmm... ok, let's throw this thing in a hot water bath for 20 mins, that should be plenty of time... Ahhh, yes - one tek says 50 grams of lye, but the other says 100 grams... i think I'll combine the 2. 150 grams will probably be better, because more is always better. Now, let me find my plastic syringes to dispense the naphtha...."

Ok, maybe it wasn't EXACTLY like that - but pretty close. I'm surprised that I yielded anything. Of course, goo - which led to a hasty collection and no re-x. Yeah.... probably vaped some naphtha from that batch...

So, a lot does change. That was before I became involved in chemistry. The challenge and initial failure prompted me to look deeper. It's been a wild journey!

Take care!
ACY