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Freebase to fumarate - no problems until NOW. Need help.

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Nature Boy

Nature Boy

Rising Star
I've done the freebase to fumarate conversion of DMT using FASA not less than three times in the past without a single hitch. Yesterday, using a brand new 1 liter can of acetone to which 25 grams of thoroughly oven-dried mag sulfate was added (2 hours at 400 degrees F) I took 1 gram of snow-white DMT and dissolved it in 50 cc FASA. I did the same with 309 mg of fumaric acid. When combined, it produced as expected, a milky white cloud which in the overnight left me with beautiful, long needle-like crystals. HERE is where the wheels came off!

I poured out every last drop of the acetone, and lay the crystal-laden jar on its side with a computer fan blowing gently into it. A half hour later my beautiful xtals were nothing but tacky, oily goop!!!! I poured in a few cc's of cold FASA and "washed" the goop to no avail.

I then simply left the jar to open air hoping the goop would solidify with time. Nope. Next I tried a half-hour with a Nesco food dehydrator. No help. Lastly I tried putting the jar (open) on the freezer. Still no joy.

WTF????????? I've NEVER had this happen before!!! The DMT was gorgeous snow-white product from an A/B extraction. I'm broken hearted. I wanted a nice powdery DMT fumarate to encapsulate along with harmala alkaloids from B. caapi which I have in abundance in "pill-huasca" form... but all I have now is an unkown mass of putty-like goop.

Can someone help???

N.B.
 
seems like the mag sulfate may be the culprit. can't the same thing be achieved without it?

I have not made the freebase to dmt fumerate transfer yet.

but I think the mag sulfate comes in handy more for the conversion from salt to freebase.

I have done the harmine freebase to harmine fumererate transfer using just water.
 
mabey, if the air where you live is very humid, the residual acetone evaporating pulled some moisture out of the air, and since dmt fumarate is so damn water soluble it goo'ed up a bit. This especially makes sense because i notice the glass container i use gets very cold as the residual acetone evaporates, and we all know humid air blowing across a cold surface causes condensation of moisture.

This happened to me, not to the extent that it all turned to goo, but i did fasa on 1g of white freebase to get the whitest prettiest dmt fumarate i've ever seen. I decanted off the tone, and let it air dry with a small computer fan. After a while i saw it started to get slightly yellow/gooey. After i scraped it out, and chopped it up with a razor however it crystallized fine and was perfectly white and not at all gooey again.
 
Yeah maybe day tripper is right, I would just keep scrapping/rescrapping it, making lines with a sharp object in the spread goo, so with time it hardens up. Use a wide glass dish. You can use a hairdryer to help drying it too.

Just dont throw anything away, im sure it will be good :)
 
Quick update:

I tried dissolving the goo into an absolute minimum of 99% Iso - that went fine. Put it in the freezer, and ended up with beautiful looking off-white precipitate powder...no needles.

I carefully decanted off the Iso over my vacuum filter funnel with filter paper, and initially everything looked great. What little powder ended up on the filter paper dried to a salmon-white powder. At this point, I thought I'd pulled off a major save!

1/2 hour later the powder in the jar turned back into golden goo. :?:

I'm leaving it open to air in the hopes it'll crystallize and be of some use, but after two days, it's not looking like that will solve anything. At this point in time I'm just calling it a loss and an intellectual exercise in experimental chemistry to see if I can recover anything active. Doubt I'd rely on any resultant product except to bioassay the "final" result - if I ever stumble my way onto one. In the time I've spent trying to salvage this odd turn of events, I could have extracted a gram of FB. :oops:

For the record, I DO live in an exceedingly damp environment, and these events (out of necessity) occurred in my basement.

N.B.
 
Your culprit here is ambient moisture. Even though dmt-fumarate is the least hygroscopic salt, it is nevertheless hygroscopic. But as long as you dry it properly and keep it in air-tight vial, then it will remail a powder.

What you need to do is stick in the oven at ~50 C for some time. It will hadren and you'll be able to chop it to a nice fluffy powder.
 
Fine. I can easily try that...just not with the family around. Will get it done and report back.

N.B.
 
Nature Boy said:
Fine. I can easily try that...just not with the family around. Will get it done and report back.

N.B.
Click to expand...
What do you mean with the family around? your parents? your partner+child(ren)?

Whatever that is, it is against the attitude here, so please explain yourself
 
It means not when my wife is at home or either of our grown children are visiting. I'm 59 years old, not some college kid living in a dorm. "Against the attitude here?" Do you advertise what you do in the local paper? Sheesh.

To be clear: It means I do things pertaining to psychedelics with discretion paramount. I thought >>THAT<< was the attitude around here.

N.B.
 
Sorry, Infundibulum. I get tempermental sometimes. :oops:

I've long had the desire to see if I could complex a DMT compound with HPBCD (hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin) to potentially make it sublingually absorbable - and therefore active without need of an MAOI.

I'm thinking now is my chance. I have this oily DMT-fumarate...why not take a portion and try and complex it and dose it sublingually??? Gonna do it. I'll report back on my experience. Even a negative data point is, after all, still a data point.

N.B.
 
OK...update definitely warranted.

SWIM ended up adding two full grams of HPBCD to the goo. This produced a thicker, honey colored mass which again, did not solidify. It has the consistency of cold honey, and a definite, pleasant, tryptamine (?) smell to it. It is quite bitter to taste, and (unless it is utter imagination, which I now doubt) had some mild sublingual / oral activity in the little which can be successfully held under the tongue. It is difficult to distinguish oral from sublingual effect because saliva build up was significant, and that, of course ended up being swallowed.

More importantly, SWIM took a 00 capsule and weighed it empty (.112 grams) and loaded it with the thickened golden goo until it weighed a total of .396 grams, which took only a tiny bit of the goo. I am guesstimating this capsule contained approximately 90 mg of DMT fumarate, or 62 ish mg of freebase equivalent in the capsule. SWIM swallowed it at 7:11am this morning on an empty stomach.

Twenty minutes later SWIM definitely started to feel weird. It is now 50 minutes and there is no doubt that there is activity, although it is mostly an excitatory sensation, like far too much coffee and a bit of mental clouding.

Going to get off the computer and see where this goes.

EDIT: OK...I'm back (9:00am). Never really went anywhere past the excitement stage, which itself was fairly short-lived. Going to up the dose on the next attempt, preferably in silent darkness to better assess any subtle effects. Too many distractions in the daytime to properly evaluate subtle sensory alterations.

N.B.
 
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