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Fumaric acid saturated 200 proof ethanol -FASE

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biopsylo

biopsylo

Rising Star
as others had speculated that this would probably work, swims latest experiment confirms this notion, at least for him.
fumarate crystals crashed out of d-limonene and FASE and stuck themselves to the jar.:)

i know iso is much easier to find for most people, but if it is available, i prefer dehydrated grain ethanol.
thanks Jorkest, this was really cool to watch.
 
biopsylo said:
as others had speculated that this would probably work, swims latest experiment confirms this notion.
fumarate crystals crashed out of d-limonene and FASE and stuck themselves to the jar.:)

i know iso is much easier to find for most people, but if it is available, i prefer ethanol.
thanks Jorkest, this was really cool to watch.
Click to expand...
Problem is, dmt fumarate is fairly soluble in ethanol, this is why it is not used. FAS-M(ethanol) can also be used but has the same drawbacks.

FASA was made because dmt fumarate is insoluble in acetone and the precipitated could be cleaned with acetone. FASI is almost equally good because dmt fumarate is very little soluble in IPA, around the range of 1mg/ml). For ethanol however, the solubility is 5mg/ml. this means that both during the precipitation and during the washing of the fumarates a considerable amount of product will be lost.
 
thanks for this information Infundibulum---i was certainly not aware of this.

yields have not been calculated, as FASE was only done on one pull to see if it would work.

5% can be a significant loss. guess swims jumped the gun on this one:?

how about cleaning up with water? wouldn't this lessen the loss??
also, if dry dmt fumarate is soluble in ethanol at 5mg/ml is the same true, or is the same thing happening when adding FASE to dmt saturated d-limonene? i guess i just dont quite understand the chemistry behind it.

could the 'lost' fumarate be collected from the d-limonene with FASW?
 
I'm kinda curious about this too, cause if they are miscible, wouldn't the loss be less than 5mg/ml - which would be the solubility only if using pure ethanol and not a mixture of ethanol/limo?
 
biopsylo said:
thanks for this information Infundibulum---i was certainly not aware of this.

yields have not been calculated, as FASE was only done on one pull to see if it would work.

5% can be a significant loss. guess swims jumped the gun on this one:?

how about cleaning up with water? wouldn't this lessen the loss??
also, if dry dmt fumarate is soluble in ethanol at 5mg/ml is the same true, or is the same thing happening when adding FASE to dmt saturated d-limonene? i guess i just dont quite understand the chemistry behind it.

could the 'lost' fumarate be collected from the d-limonene with FASW?
Click to expand...
Well, things get more complicated as one moves to a limo-FASE environment and SWIM does not know how much may be lost in this case.

But this approach does hold a lot of promise esp for people how cannot procure IPA. What SWIM would do is to keep solutions in the freezer; e.g. add FASE to limo, then stick in the freezer - any fumarates that may be dissolvable will not do at this temperature. And when washing the fumarates with ethanol to remove residual limo, lipids or other impurities also keep it in the freezer to minimise losses. In this way, there may be fumaric acid contamination but it's far less bad than yield loss. Besides, when one freebases, fumaric acid will stay behind.

SWIM does not know the solubility of the dmt-fumarate in frozen ethanol but he'd assume that it is fairly low to non at all.

Hope this helps!
 
Well, things get more complicated as one moves to a limo-FASE environment and SWIM does not know how much may be lost in this case.

But this approach does hold a lot of promise esp for people how cannot procure IPA. What SWIM would do is to keep solutions in the freezer; e.g. add FASE to limo, then stick in the freezer - any fumarates that may be dissolvable will not do at this temperature. And when washing the fumarates with ethanol to remove residual limo, lipids or other impurities also keep it in the freezer to minimise losses. In this way, there may be fumaric acid contamination but it's far less bad than yield loss. Besides, when one freebases, fumaric acid will stay behind.

SWIM does not know the solubility of the dmt-fumarate in frozen ethanol but he'd assume that it is fairly low to non at all.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...


yes, thanks much for the help.

i suppose it would be worth a try to finish up with FASW to see if anything is left behind in the limonene.
 
^^thats what i was counting on. if the FASE dissolved some dmt, wouldn't it be held in the limonene?--or is this nearly a non-issue.

the FASE worked beautifully, crystals growing 1/4 inch on the sides of the jar.-has been collected.

my thinking would be now to run some fasw thru the same limonene (different jar) and evap to see if anything is left behind. does this make any sense?
 
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