Glacial Acetic Acid DMT precipitation

[royalalpha]

I'm doing an extraction with 50G MHRB, my intended use of the yield is pharmahusca,so i want to have the dmt as acetate powder/crystals

After acid phase and basification , 3 x 50ml pulls of naphtha >> 150ml naphtha

I've read on different posts that if i dropped glacial acetic acid into the naphtha, the acetate salt will precipitate so i can decant/filter then dry

my calc's : anticipated yield of 0.5g(2.66mMol)dmt needs 0.16ml GAA, assuming a drop 50micron , 3.2 drops of GAA are needed

as i need to get dmt salt into gel caps: the idea is i don't want to get into a final polar phase(water),that will taste like hell when ingested, and hard to get powder/crystal through evap

my questions:-
- if my GAA was 96%, will boiling for a while(50-75% of initial volume) work?
- is the above calc's valid?
- will it be possible to filter the perciptate from naphtha or it will too fine to go through common filters

your feedback is highly appreciated guys,thank you

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I'm doing an extraction with 50G MHRB, my intended use of the yield is pharmahusca,so i want to have the dmt as acetate powder/crystals

Why the acetate and not something less hygroscopic like, say, the very well described fumarate?

[...]
I've read on different posts that if i dropped glacial acetic acid into the naphtha, the acetate salt will precipitate so i can decant/filter then dry

Where did you read this? Please provide links.
Your naphtha will need to be bone dry (as in, as free from water as possible) for this to have any chance of providing crystals rather than goop.

my calc's : anticipated yield of 0.5g(2.66mMol)dmt needs 0.16ml GAA, assuming a drop 50micron , 3.2 drops of GAA are needed

Please show all your workings for this. Also, you will need to ascertain what your yield of DMT actually is (by titration) so that you add the right amount of GAA rather than an excess or insufficiency. Adding too little GAA is likely to present fewer problems than adding too much.

as i need to get dmt salt into gel caps: the idea is i don't want to get into a final polar phase(water),that will taste like hell when ingested, and hard to get powder/crystal through evap

Why not just extract from the naphtha into a normal volume of vinegar (~3% acetic acid) and evaporate that down? It'll be a far more effective way of ensuring maximum evaporation of solvent residue.

my questions:-
- if my GAA was 96%, will boiling for a while(50-75% of initial volume) work?

If you can obtain or prepare acetic anhydride, this would be a far more effective way of making your acetic acid fully anhydrous. Bear in mind, acetic anhydride is a UN Red List watched chemical...

- is the above calc's valid?

As said above, please show your workings so there is something to check.

- will it be possible to filter the perciptate from naphtha or it will too fine to go through common filters

to get larger crystals, you will need to add the acid very slowly. The best way to do this is to dilute it in an inert solvent in which both GAA and naphtha are miscible. This solvent will also need to be anhydrous, and you would be better off working in a dry atmosphere - glove box or sealed chamber - if you're really serious about obtaining actual crystals of DMT acetate. Do you have experience with preparation and handling of anhydrous solvents, and use of inert atmospheres (of which dry atmosphere is technically a subset)?

your feedback is highly appreciated guys,thank you

I hope you find my comments useful.

 

[leratiomyces]

As explained above, you will end up with a hygroscopic puddle.
You might see crystals form if your solvent and gaa are dry, but as soon as you try to filter, the crystals will melt before your eyes.
Go with what has been done- fumerate.

 

[royalalpha]

Many thanks for your reply
Please keep in mind i don't have adequate chemistry knowledge nor accessibility and finally using kitchen tools

Why the acetate and not something less hygroscopic like, say, the very well described fumarate?

I wish i could have access to fumaric acid, all i have access to is Acetic(conc) or citric and acetate is relatively better than citrate

Where did you read this? Please provide links.

NONTOXIC LIMONENE TEK - Advanced/Enhanced chemistry - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Please show all your workings for this.

50G of MHRB @1%yield = 0.5g DMT
0.5g >> 0.5/188 = 2.66mMol DMT
2.66mMol * 60 = 0.16g GAA
@density ~= 1 >> 0.16g = 0.16mL
@drop = 50 micron >> 0.16mL = 3.2drops of GAA

Why not just extract from the naphtha into a normal volume of vinegar (~3% acetic acid) and evaporate that down? It'll be a far more effective way of ensuring maximum evaporation of solvent residue.

I had previous failures extracting DXM Acetate powder by evaporation,so i tend to evap only low boiling temp liquids(not water),my impression got confirmed by a tek here on nexus where it ended at having a tincture(conc), please correct me and if any guidelines will be appreciated

If you can obtain or prepare acetic anhydride, this would be a far more effective way of making your acetic acid fully anhydrous. Bear in mind, acetic anhydride is a UN Red List watched chemical...

to my understanding(i'm no chemist), but acetic anhydride is not GAA, my question was about possibility to concentrate 96% Acetic Acetic to 100% by evap(similar to sulphoric)

to get larger crystals, you will need to add the acid very slowly. The best way to do this is to dilute it in an inert solvent in which both GAA and naphtha are miscible. This solvent will also need to be anhydrous, and you would be better off working in a dry atmosphere - glove box or sealed chamber - if you're really serious about obtaining actual crystals of DMT acetate. Do you have experience with preparation and handling of anhydrous solvents, and use of inert atmospheres (of which dry atmosphere is technically a subset)?

doesn't have to be crystals,powder is fine,while i have a glove box, but i can't claim to have such capacity of inert dry atmosphere
Is it really that sensitive,the water content will be trace amounts in 0.16g of say 99% Acetic acid, also atmosphere, have no clue of naphtha
do u have a figure of DMT Acetate solubility in water?

 

[endlessness]

You will not get powder nor crystals, it will be a goo. Forget about this if you want something solid. Notice burnt's post is only hypothetical about dry acetates forming.

also, acetic acid itself is volatile, it evaps, you cant concentrate it by boiling it.

Fumaric acid is sold all over as a supplenment sometimes for people with psoriasis, im sure a google search can help you find an online supplier in your country.

The only other known solid dmt salt apart from fumarate is picrate, but dont mess with picric acid, its dangerous..

 

[royalalpha]

thank you endlessness, i've been searching for fumaric acid ith no success, i will check psoriasis supplement

I think Acetic acid is not volatile, it has higher boiling point than water(118-119C >> wikipedia)

if i mixed the naphtha with vinegar(5%), will it be possible to evap dilute acetic and get a powder???

 

[endlessness]

Hey friend,

You are right that acetic acid has a higher boiling point than water but due to some chemical reasons that go beyond my own basic chem knowledge, boiling off water from acetic acid gets harder and harder the more you boil, so in the end you really cannot practically get pure glacial acetic acid (source) . Even if you did, it wouldnt help in anything because your DMT will still not be a solid.

If you dont mind sharing the country maybe we can help you find fumaric acid... otherwise if you prefer not to, dont say anything but do try to look around a bit and Id imagine you can find.

If not, what I suggest to you is simply keeping it as freebase, ideally in a cold/dark place, and when you want to consume you just dissolve the dosage you want in orange juice or something and then consume, you dont need to turn it into a salt. You can also consume the freebase in gel caps though freebase in the stomach felt a bit harsh on the stomach when I tried so if you do that I suggest you gulp that caps with some warm acidic drink to quickly turn it into salt form in your stomach.

Whether you get vinegar or glacial acetic acid to salt your naphtha or whatever solvent that has DMT, you will not get a stable powder/crystal with dmt acetate, it will form a goo, not a solid, as has been said before.

Hope that helps!

 

[royalalpha]

Hey friend,

You are right that acetic acid has a higher boiling point than water but due to some chemical reasons that go beyond my own basic chem knowledge, boiling off water from acetic acid gets harder and harder the more you boil, so in the end you really cannot practically get pure glacial acetic acid (source) . Even if you did, it wouldnt help in anything because your DMT will still not be a solid.

If you dont mind sharing the country maybe we can help you find fumaric acid... otherwise if you prefer not to, dont say anything but do try to look around a bit and Id imagine you can find.

If not, what I suggest to you is simply keeping it as freebase, ideally in a cold/dark place, and when you want to consume you just dissolve the dosage you want in orange juice or something and then consume, you dont need to turn it into a salt. You can also consume the freebase in gel caps though freebase in the stomach felt a bit harsh on the stomach when I tried so if you do that I suggest you gulp that caps with some warm acidic drink to quickly turn it into salt form in your stomach.

Whether you get vinegar or glacial acetic acid to salt your naphtha or whatever solvent that has DMT, you will not get a stable powder/crystal with dmt acetate, it will form a goo, not a solid, as has been said before.

Hope that helps!

That helps alot, thank you v much, I live in Egypt
I just expected the GAA to Pet.Ether will act like FASA,but OK i will accept your point
I was just hopping for a clear Pharmahausca, i have a clean Harmaine/Harmalin in powder form, and dissolving DMT in excess vinegar had two issues with me
Horrible taste
Acidity(excess vinegar)

I might consider your idea about F.B as i have tried the harmal F.B and worked like charm,similar to the hcl salt

I hope if any member in my country would point me where to find Fumaric Acid,would be a hit
Thanks again to all

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Chemistry footnote:

to my understanding(i'm no chemist), but acetic anhydride is not GAA, my question was about possibility to concentrate 96% Acetic Acetic to 100% by evap(similar to sulphoric)

Yes, but my reply outlines this: if you add the correct proportion of acetic anhydride to your 96% AA, it will react with the 4% water to produce acetic acid only. This is how you prepare 100% acetic acid (without having to use ketene, which is highly dangerous).

 

[royalalpha]

Chemistry footnote:

to my understanding(i'm no chemist), but acetic anhydride is not GAA, my question was about possibility to concentrate 96% Acetic Acetic to 100% by evap(similar to sulphoric)

Yes, but my reply outlines this: if you add the correct proportion of acetic anhydride to your 96% AA, it will react with the 4% water to produce acetic acid only. This is how you prepare 100% acetic acid (without having to use ketene, which is highly dangerous).

Many thanks man, i misunderstood your reply
I got it now,as endlessness clarified,Aqueous Acetic Acid is like Ethanol (very hard to get it abstract)

 

[royalalpha]

tested 150mg dmt F.B + 300mg Haramal Extract F.B as pharmahausca last night, was a hell of a trip
so the only reason i might still consider the dmt salt is storage(avoid oxidation of F.B)

one side question:
is puking part of the experience, i took both as caps(35 min apart), yet i had to throw up

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Vomiting is commonly reported but not obligatory. People recommend chewing fresh ginger root and taking a few drops of lemon essential oil (which you can put in a capsule too) to reduce nausea.