Psychonauti
Rising Star
I've been reading and watching Kilindi Iyi interviews. His explanation of hyperdimensional realm exploration is so fascinating to and I'm curious to know if anyone has experience in 50g+ trips.
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God Dose? (50g+)
- Thread starter Psychonauti
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Oh, this guy. Hahaha.
Why is 50g necessary? Why is it necessary to potentially cause a permanent psychological problem for oneself. Don't get me wrong, I ate around 23g in 3 hours one time... after over a decade, the only thing I really remember was that I was still somehow babysitting everyone else. I was also young and dumb in my early 20s.
I appreciate his passion (and may he rest in peace), but I'm not a fan of what he promoted. It sounds like a recipe for disaster for more people than it may be beneficial for.
There's also the phenomenon of falling-for-your-own-bullshit, which I feel he may have. He made a lot of unsubstantiated claims as though they are facts and he had some faulty comparisons of other psychedelics that is indicative of having not tried them, and so in essence, with the claims he made, he didn't really know what he was talking about. He wasn't interested in accuracy that much. It seems he was more interested in the optics of looking informed to back up his ideas. The more conviction someone delivers information with the more likely people are to believe and/or align with it.
However, and while he may have said otherwise, I can't help but wonder how much of this was an overly inflated and a bit out of control ego he may have been operating with.
The other issue is that "50g" this day in age can mean a wide range of things. At the center I work at there was a short period where we were using one strain that was 7.4mg/g (Elf Machine) of psilocybin and psilocin and another that had a potency of 15.2mg/g (Bluey Vutton). So imagine, one of these strains at 50g is almost double the amount of tryptamines than the other.
I don't know, it's just not something I can take seriously.
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The figure is not so meaningful without some explanation of the type and condition of mushrooms used. Fresh cubes, perhaps? 50g wet or, especielly, dried of anything but the weakest specimens would require some serious preparation, IMO. I carelessly took too much ovoid juice once and it was several hours of sheer terror, much as @Voidmatrix says.
Why not take a more modest dose and save the rest for another time/loved one?
Have fun
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Eeeeh… focussing only on the one figure, he stated 20 to 30 grams dried, and not 20 plus 30 Where did this 50g figure come from? Also, he was a sizeable chap - one ought to take one's own bodyweight into account when calculating a dose.
I'm not going to go into the inaccuracies and misapprehensions I noticed in the first three and a half minutes of the video as it woud take too long. I'll reserve further comment until I've had the time to watch the rest, other than to say some interesting points were raised which are worthy of following up, particularly the 300 different psychoactive/entheogenic(?) plants in the Zulu pharmacopoeia.
Where did this 50g figure come from? Also, he was a sizeable chap - one ought to take one's own bodyweight into account when calculating a dose.I'm not going to go into the inaccuracies and misapprehensions I noticed in the first three and a half minutes of the video as it woud take too long. I'll reserve further comment until I've had the time to watch the rest, other than to say some interesting points were raised which are worthy of following up, particularly the 300 different psychoactive/entheogenic(?) plants in the Zulu pharmacopoeia.
That's exactly what I mean. I don't deny that there's a lot undiscovered in many African cultures and in African history since it may very well be the most understudied continent in those contexts, that's still a lot of entheogens for just one African society.
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doubledog
Established member
Better than increasing the dose of mushrooms to huge amount is to combine it with harmala alkaloids.
In general, any approach focused so much on dosing is very suspicious to me, focus should be always on experience itself.
It is also my personal experience that people talking a lot about high doses are always the ones which are very unsensitive to the effects of particular substance.
Some people seems to admire others for ability to take high doses, in my opinion it is some form of curse.
In general, any approach focused so much on dosing is very suspicious to me, focus should be always on experience itself.
It is also my personal experience that people talking a lot about high doses are always the ones which are very unsensitive to the effects of particular substance.
Some people seems to admire others for ability to take high doses, in my opinion it is some form of curse.
I was thinking about some of the examples he gives, like seeing predator run across the room, which would be terrifying, but at the same time, really? That's the best you got in trying to get me to take more than 20g? Nothing more? Alien and predator?
Reason I say this is because of some of the wild stuff I've seen that's literally out of this world (Alien and predator are of this world's fiction), like after purging in the sink in a dark kitchen, having these tubes, which turned and flexed at me, that were covered in eyes looking at me, or the humanoid woman that emerged from the ground in my room with wires, cords, and vines coming out of her as she floated and turned before me. These were of doses of between 7g and 14g.
Some of what I've seen I can't really describe.
But I think @doubledog is right about the sensitivity observation. He could have very low sensitivity 5ht receptors making it so he needed more. And it makes things that much more arbitrary in terms of dose. I'd rather get what the depth others get with half their dose. I think it's more impressive how far someone can authentically go with a given dose than how big a dose they can take.
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Reason I say this is because of some of the wild stuff I've seen that's literally out of this world (Alien and predator are of this world's fiction), like after purging in the sink in a dark kitchen, having these tubes, which turned and flexed at me, that were covered in eyes looking at me, or the humanoid woman that emerged from the ground in my room with wires, cords, and vines coming out of her as she floated and turned before me. These were of doses of between 7g and 14g.
Some of what I've seen I can't really describe.
But I think @doubledog is right about the sensitivity observation. He could have very low sensitivity 5ht receptors making it so he needed more. And it makes things that much more arbitrary in terms of dose. I'd rather get what the depth others get with half their dose. I think it's more impressive how far someone can authentically go with a given dose than how big a dose they can take.
One love
The thing is though, harmala alkaloids have their own psychoactive effects and some might not want to convolute the psilocybin experience with another substance. In these cases I'd say that to get desired effects, taking a higher dose is fine and entirely logical.. just as you would with any other substance. Harmalas aren't really something I'd consider adding to mushrooms anymore since psilocybin is essentially orally active DMT already. Of course, I am advocating sensible increase of dose here, in order to reach desired effects.. not taking ten times what is already considered a high dose.. that is bonkers.
I'd also add that taking harmala alkaloids adds the extra dietary requirements and other potential complications, whereas psilocybin is very physiologically safe. My view overall is that its best to avoid stacking different substances on top of each other to produce stronger effects.. and that its actually its safer to just sensibly increase the doseage. Of course if synergy is what you are after then that is a totally different thing and is down to personal taste.
doubledog
Established member
I am a big proponent or advocate of psilohuasca, as my experience is that mushroom alkaloids are only partially orally active and also need activation to function properly or fully.
So if anybody want to get "more" from mushrooms, it is better to combine them with (extracted) harmala alkaloids than to increase dose.
It's of course true that harmalas add some "flavour" to the experience, it's not that it just makes shrooms stronger.
So if anybody want to get "more" from mushrooms, it is better to combine them with (extracted) harmala alkaloids than to increase dose.
It's of course true that harmalas add some "flavour" to the experience, it's not that it just makes shrooms stronger.
I believe there are people that 'need' excessively high doses compared to others. I personally need much lower doses but usually with shorter duration. Even common pain pills 1 pill for me is strong enough but requires more frequent redose while others need double the dose but last 'normal' duration. This is with zero tolerance for both experiences.
@acacian I think the maoi dietarty requirements are mainly with pharma maoi. I do refrain from consuming certain things during the 4h window after taking caapi tea but I eat red meat, drink wine, yogurt and cheese all without any health complications and last checkup I was actually healthier than I expected with everything in blood work being in healthy ranges. I have made some poor choices but I am still young so might be a part. (30s) I don't take any opioids or strong stimulants while with maoi but I don't have any other restrictions.
I personally also learned about aphantasia and I personally don't 'see' anything and only have a conceptual understanding of images when eyes are closed trying to visualize something. CEV have always been rare for me and I'd imagine someone with the same condition but lower end of enzymes that consume the compounds can easily require or 'handle' high doses.
When I was younger I would dose higher than required which did help me see things differently. I don't regret the experience but high doses are very unpredictable. I personally blacked out to my physical body but there was no "disconnect" and I would move around and not just "in my mind". Many say they don't move but not everyone has that effect.
@acacian I think the maoi dietarty requirements are mainly with pharma maoi. I do refrain from consuming certain things during the 4h window after taking caapi tea but I eat red meat, drink wine, yogurt and cheese all without any health complications and last checkup I was actually healthier than I expected with everything in blood work being in healthy ranges. I have made some poor choices but I am still young so might be a part. (30s) I don't take any opioids or strong stimulants while with maoi but I don't have any other restrictions.
I personally also learned about aphantasia and I personally don't 'see' anything and only have a conceptual understanding of images when eyes are closed trying to visualize something. CEV have always been rare for me and I'd imagine someone with the same condition but lower end of enzymes that consume the compounds can easily require or 'handle' high doses.
When I was younger I would dose higher than required which did help me see things differently. I don't regret the experience but high doses are very unpredictable. I personally blacked out to my physical body but there was no "disconnect" and I would move around and not just "in my mind". Many say they don't move but not everyone has that effect.
@modern what makes you say that it’s more of an issue with pharma? Whether using extracted harmalas or brewing caapi/syrian rue, the potential issues are still there. They all inhibit mono amine oxidase. And whether it is DMT or psilocybin you are combining it with doesn’t change the physiological risks aside from the fact that a larger dose of MAOI is required to render DMT orally active.. psilocybin being most of the way there.
Also, that’s interesting re: aphantasia.. so you don’t find mushrooms very visual? Or are you just referring to CEV? What about breakthrough doses of DMT?
Anyways, everyone has their preference. There’s nothing wrong at all with using psilohuasca and I can appreciate that its preferred over psilocybin alone for some people.. I just thought I’d throw in the point that it’s not black and white better than increasing the mushroom dose to achieve desired strength. It can impart its own flavor on the experience, and there’s the physiological angle to consider too. It’s not necessarily what everyone is looking for.
With mushrooms alone there is little to no risk of physical adversity if you’ve eaten something or taken a medication that might cause issues when MAO is inhibited.
@doubledog yeah it certainly means no psilocybin goes to waste! What kinds of doses of each do you tend to take for desired effects? Do you have preference between psilohuasca and ayahuasca? And do you prefer Syrian rue, caapi or extracted harmalas to potentiate the mushrooms? Have you noticed much difference between them?
I quite enjoy the combination however I find Syrian rue slightly physically uncomfortable when taken orally (less so with extracts).. and I also find mushrooms have a body load of their own that can be distracting at times. So it’s not a combo I’m personally super drawn to. If balancing the dose between them could remove the body load of larger mushroom doses I’d be interested to revisit it some time.. but I’m also very sensitive to psilocybin so supplementing with MAOI is unnecessary.
Curious whether you guys use it in a similar way with mescaline?
Also I just wanna say I’m not advocating excessive doses of psilocybin or defending Kilindi Lyi.. but to those who haven’t done so before, I’d suggest taking great care when combining harmalas with mushrooms as it can be pretty wild. A lot of people find it a difficult/overwhelming experience. And mushrooms are wild enough to begin with! Of course dose is key here.
Also, that’s interesting re: aphantasia.. so you don’t find mushrooms very visual? Or are you just referring to CEV? What about breakthrough doses of DMT?
Anyways, everyone has their preference. There’s nothing wrong at all with using psilohuasca and I can appreciate that its preferred over psilocybin alone for some people.. I just thought I’d throw in the point that it’s not black and white better than increasing the mushroom dose to achieve desired strength. It can impart its own flavor on the experience, and there’s the physiological angle to consider too. It’s not necessarily what everyone is looking for.
With mushrooms alone there is little to no risk of physical adversity if you’ve eaten something or taken a medication that might cause issues when MAO is inhibited.
@doubledog yeah it certainly means no psilocybin goes to waste! What kinds of doses of each do you tend to take for desired effects? Do you have preference between psilohuasca and ayahuasca? And do you prefer Syrian rue, caapi or extracted harmalas to potentiate the mushrooms? Have you noticed much difference between them?
I quite enjoy the combination however I find Syrian rue slightly physically uncomfortable when taken orally (less so with extracts).. and I also find mushrooms have a body load of their own that can be distracting at times. So it’s not a combo I’m personally super drawn to. If balancing the dose between them could remove the body load of larger mushroom doses I’d be interested to revisit it some time.. but I’m also very sensitive to psilocybin so supplementing with MAOI is unnecessary.
Curious whether you guys use it in a similar way with mescaline?
Also I just wanna say I’m not advocating excessive doses of psilocybin or defending Kilindi Lyi.. but to those who haven’t done so before, I’d suggest taking great care when combining harmalas with mushrooms as it can be pretty wild. A lot of people find it a difficult/overwhelming experience. And mushrooms are wild enough to begin with! Of course dose is key here.
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I combine maoi from caapi tea with ALL my psychoactive but I don't dose heavy. I agree there is always a carried risk with maoi however with DIET specifically I've never noticed issues with hypertension and such. This study might be outdated but a link RIMA: a safe concept in the treatment of depression with moclobemide - PubMed Moclobemide: therapeutic use and clinical studies - PubMed
With mescaline I'll be increasing dosage a little at a time but felt amazing at 50mg and the 'other salts' at 100mg causes 16+ hours of extremely clean energy. I don't suggest anyone else do anything but for those interested I always tell them to start very low since the potency increase is quite strong... for me around 3x. I reattempted these doses a few times to make sure not psychological. I don't get 'other flavor' but again I take caapi daily. I do 'feel' a slight uplift but unless taking around 600+mg harmalas I don't get anything else. High doses cause nausea and auditory humming and time distortions alone and would only take if I want a very deep aya experience.
Like I mentioned I don't mix things like Tramadol or 'diet stimulants' within a 4h window of taking the caapi but I have drunken red wine and drank beer 2-3h after dose. I've eaten shrimp and other things said to be bad without issues. I've taken kratom (only take 1-3 leaves for energy) without any issues. I am not suggesting everyone do it and start low to test.
There is no need to mix the two but considering I hold caapi in high regards I prefer to lower other plants rather than not mix.
With mescaline I'll be increasing dosage a little at a time but felt amazing at 50mg and the 'other salts' at 100mg causes 16+ hours of extremely clean energy. I don't suggest anyone else do anything but for those interested I always tell them to start very low since the potency increase is quite strong... for me around 3x. I reattempted these doses a few times to make sure not psychological. I don't get 'other flavor' but again I take caapi daily. I do 'feel' a slight uplift but unless taking around 600+mg harmalas I don't get anything else. High doses cause nausea and auditory humming and time distortions alone and would only take if I want a very deep aya experience.
Like I mentioned I don't mix things like Tramadol or 'diet stimulants' within a 4h window of taking the caapi but I have drunken red wine and drank beer 2-3h after dose. I've eaten shrimp and other things said to be bad without issues. I've taken kratom (only take 1-3 leaves for energy) without any issues. I am not suggesting everyone do it and start low to test.
There is no need to mix the two but considering I hold caapi in high regards I prefer to lower other plants rather than not mix.
doubledog
Established member
By psilohuasca, I mean combination of Caapi ( not Rue) with shrooms. I prefer Caapi as Rue is physically unpleasant to me.
I use caapi extracted alks, 30 mg sublingually 10 minutes before ingestion of mushroom tea made from dried powdered shrooms. If I had fresh shrooms, I would juiced them in smoothie mixer and strain them to only have liquid.
Dose is dependent on type I have, which means 2-3 g for arcana or bohemica, 1g for subtropicalis, 3-4g for semilanceata/strictipes.
Ayahusca and psilohuasca are almost on the same level for me. I use both, psilohuasca tends to give me much clearer messages what to do with my life, but aya influence it more. Psilohuasca is playful and funny, aya is more serious ally. Aya and its nausea and vomiting is not something I like.
I tried it with mescaline, but there is not such synergy, potency is still increased, but I did not like it much.
I use caapi extracted alks, 30 mg sublingually 10 minutes before ingestion of mushroom tea made from dried powdered shrooms. If I had fresh shrooms, I would juiced them in smoothie mixer and strain them to only have liquid.
Dose is dependent on type I have, which means 2-3 g for arcana or bohemica, 1g for subtropicalis, 3-4g for semilanceata/strictipes.
Ayahusca and psilohuasca are almost on the same level for me. I use both, psilohuasca tends to give me much clearer messages what to do with my life, but aya influence it more. Psilohuasca is playful and funny, aya is more serious ally. Aya and its nausea and vomiting is not something I like.
I tried it with mescaline, but there is not such synergy, potency is still increased, but I did not like it much.
@doubledog thanks for the all the info. That’s cool that you have a bit of an array of mushroom species to work with. Do you have a favorite of the above mentioned ones? We have mostly psilocybin subaeruginosa around here, and cubensis/copelandia cyanescens closer to the coast. I find subaeruginosa to be my favorite..
Do you ever get the wood lovers paralysis?
That’s interesting that you didn’t enjoy the synergy between harmalas and mescaline. What was about it that you didn’t like?
@modern when you say clean energy could you elaborate a little? I’d be more interested in this combo since mescaline is not a very potent compound. Mushrooms grow so fast and I find very potent by themselves.. but mescaline cacti are so much slower growing it would be cool to lower the required dose for good effects. Don’t want to chop too much off my cacti as I want to enjoy them growing.
Do you ever get the wood lovers paralysis?
That’s interesting that you didn’t enjoy the synergy between harmalas and mescaline. What was about it that you didn’t like?
@modern when you say clean energy could you elaborate a little? I’d be more interested in this combo since mescaline is not a very potent compound. Mushrooms grow so fast and I find very potent by themselves.. but mescaline cacti are so much slower growing it would be cool to lower the required dose for good effects. Don’t want to chop too much off my cacti as I want to enjoy them growing.
Low dose psilohuasca, specifically 2.8g rue brew + 800mg powdered Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, landed very well with me. It's been sat on my to do (again) list for months now. Intricate liquid synaesthetic visuals tickling my bodily energy channels? Yes please!
I read that as 800g at first.. Tryina one up Kilindi Lyi 
Gorgeous mushroom.. reminds me of a mix of cubensis and cyanescens.
Gorgeous mushroom.. reminds me of a mix of cubensis and cyanescens.
Hehe, gorgeous indeed - both in effects and appearance. I like your qualitative assessment, that's a curiously accurate depiction of the effects. My ovoid culture made me consider attempting to get legally married to the mushroom, what with my being so enamoured with it. Sad to have left that behind when I moved, 50g fresh of that one would shred you into little pieces. It's quite surprising how far a little pinch of the powdered mushroom will get you.I read that as 800g at first.. Tryina one up Kilindi Lyi
Gorgeous mushroom.. reminds me of a mix of cubensis and cyanescens.
Sounds amazing.. what was it about the effects that has you so enamored? Did that grow in the UK?
Has anyone been keeping up with the recent discovery of the new psilocybe species in South Africa? It’s really quite something.. the cap looks like a bishop hat. It’s called Psilocybe maluti.. there was another one found named Psilocybe ingeli though I don’t think it’s as groovy looking.
Below.. Psilocybe maluti
Has anyone been keeping up with the recent discovery of the new psilocybe species in South Africa? It’s really quite something.. the cap looks like a bishop hat. It’s called Psilocybe maluti.. there was another one found named Psilocybe ingeli though I don’t think it’s as groovy looking.
Below.. Psilocybe maluti
