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Got my arse kicked t'other night

Migrated topic.

Bonny

Rising Star
Had a little DMT party and SWIM introduced 3 other people to the spice.

One hated it from the off, just the feeling of loss of control and abstained.
One had 3 trips of Nirvana (apparently), then got a beating by Andross.
One had 3 trips all in a cuddly room he could interact with, and loved them all.

All three ended up bonging with Caapi, mainly because they disliked bonging with tobacco (harsher).

I did one hit, trying to go gentle, with ~40mg and Caapi. Nothing happened. Popped in, popped out, world was a bit odd. That was it.

So, after my mate who hated it had his go, I could see the bowl had barely been lit. So I weighed out 60mg and buried that in to the caapi, and chucked a bit more caapi on.

Lit, hit a few times, and rolled back. Barely felt my eyes close when I reopened them. I don't know how long I was under before, but I looked up, saw my friends... then saw them kaleidoscope away like the deck of cards at the end of solitaire. Then the room did, and then my whole grip on reality did. Who I was, who they were, where I was, what I was doing, what day it was. Blip, gone. Then I recall feeling myself compressed into a singularity. It was absolutely harrowing, the worst feeling of pure terror and dread I think one can imagine. Fighting for any link to your sanity.

Then, I became aware of the room and the friends in snippets. Little flashes of recognition, and could see the sniggering and sideways glances. Then became obsessed with the thought I had pissed myself. Which, in hindsight, probably did me a service, it gave me something to latch on to. I staggered from the sofa and left the room, alone, muttering something about going for a piss (mainly to check/clear up). The room at this point was still kaleidoscoping in and out, and time was still lurching about in a very undignified manner.

I got to the bottom of the stairs, and looked up them. They seemed to go on for infinity, and yet stop instantly at my feet. Each board began to float apart, and generally cause great alarm. As I grasped the bannister for dear life, I looked to my left at the room. It was swaying in and out of phase with my reality. Breaking apart in a very suspicious and unusual manner. I eventually (and very tentatively) finished climbing the stairs, and got to the bathroom. What assaulted me when I opened the door was next to impossible to explain. But it seemed so utterly alien, many colours and shades of madness. I soldiered on to my task at hand, and got my cock out. It had shrunk to all of about 1cm long, such was the abject panic I suppose. My face was morphing in and out of normality, and everywhere brilliant hues of green and red flooded into vision.

After that task was completed and I knew I was piss free :)lol:) I slowly approached the stairs, which still seemed very unsafe and unfamiliar.

I got to the front room, where my friends still were, and again they kaleidoscope away to nothing and the room starts panicking. That was about the point I darted for the sofa and buried myself in a pillow. Cautiously peeking every now and then to see if it had worn off.

Some 20 minutes later I began to make enough sense of my self and surroundings to re-integrate. I became euphoric about 30 minutes later simply to be back to reality. Walking round a supermarket afterwards was delightfully 'real' at the time.

So, why have my last trips with caapi been so disturbingly real world? What do people find with dosing? DMT straight is almost 100% CEV, yet the Caapi has been almost 100% OEV... and damn lucidly as well.

And do people encounter this gibbering ego-death/insanity and manage to push through it, or is that a brick wall to most of you? I honestly cannot see how one can mount a conscious defence against it when one cannot think... Unless the trick is to completely accept it, but again, I can't see how one can be rejecting it when one is just washed over by the power.

If it happens again, I at least have proof I survived and became normal again, and perhaps that will help. But this is beginning to become a recurrent them... :think:
 
I could not contemplate even moving muscle when I go in. It's simply not something I use to gauge my 'real' surrounding and see what weird things might happen. I need to be as calm and collected as possible. I need to enter a meditative state and prepare for the death of me, which as you have realised is no joke.

It's just not something I can do for kicks. Sure, when I first discovered it I would smoke every day. I would get home from work as soon as possible and sneak a journey before The Simpsons came on or before the GF called. Then I got what I asked for and although I don't care to recount the experience right now (it's on The Nexus somewhere), I got a proper arse-kicking.

It took me a couple of months to get over having been reprogrammed by a snake who had a probe in my eye and in my ear. She opened up my head, right in my lounge, and started reprogramming me. She had a jester as an accomplice who had a time-stopping device. Everything moved to Planck time as they scooped out my brain.

That provided me with a little perspective and forced me to revise my intentions. In short it eventually delivered what I was daring it to deliver and it scared the living shit out of me.

Intentions. What are your intentions with Spice? Are you a warrior? Are you after healing? What is it you want with the Spice?
 
Aye, this is something I am thinking about. Perhaps I'm just trying to push it too hard. I definitely felt my Andross experience was a warning. And now it took it to the real world, just to prove I couldn't escape an overdose simply by opening my eyes.

I don't know in what way you mean 'Warrior', but perhaps that could be used. I seem to be rushing in head first with a 'you can't touch me Jack' kind of attitude, and every now and then it notches up the horror a step to alarm me. But Of my ~10 trips, 2 have been dull, 2 have been non-starters, 2 have been beautiful and profound (even if one of them I can only remember the OEV stuff) and about 4 have involved abject terror and self-erasure (and yet these are probably the most profound of all, in a way).

So, on that tally, I've not been -too- unfortunate. I won't let it put me off, but I guess I'm just searching for something that convinces me of my nature/existence perhaps. Some kind of transcendental experience. Perhaps I need to just stick to 50mg at all times, and if it goes nowhere so what. Above 50mg there be beasties :|

What do people find Caapi does to their required breakthrough dose?
 
Your experience reminds me a lot of one i had last week that i posted yesterday. No caapi, though, just an accidental huge dose. Check it out and let me know what you think. Really through me round the ringer and back...

Cheers,
JBArk
 
It is inevitable that you will push it until you learn to listen to its calls and its warnings.

Sometimes you will be able to smoke a massive dose and nothing will happen. It will not grant you entry, other times it will let you in and fuck with you because you think you can control it and then there are times when it will just blow you away, teach you a lesson or tenderly lift you up, love and care for you like you have never been loved or cared for before.

I guess it can only take time and experience before you learn about your personal symbiotic relationship with the Spice.

There are those amongst us who need healing and they seek this from the Spice. Caapi in particular is a great teacher. Sometimes the lessons are hard, but it's puts us on a path as we move from lesson to lesson.

Others amongst us are less in need of pure healing and are warriors, journeymen explorers mapping Hyperspace and bringing back new messages and territories.

You seem a brave, good humoured and adventurous type :)

I would recommend that you make some Electric Sheep enhanced leaf. 1:1 with the Blue Lotus. Be alone, clear your mind and let rip. It's a wonderful blend that keeps the portal open for longer (10 minute peak time) and has a tail end of about 30 minutes. It's pure JimJam and a Rocka-Rolla Orgasmabomb of Cosmic Blue Electricity.

Whatever you do friend, find your way and learn to listen and clarify your intent.

Peace.
 
and by the way great report, keep reporting back. There is a great family here and they will all give you the support and consensus you need in Hyperspace.
 
ghostman said:
You seem a brave, good humoured and adventurous type :)

Charmed good sir :D :lol:

I must admit, I have faced down large bull sharks while completely on my own while diving, and taken the experience for its beauty and rarity, rather then it's fear. But I'd rather taken on a bull elephant in a head butting competition then go back to /that/ place again.

And yet it seems inevitable.

I'm going to try full Android Changa once my chapilonga turns up, and I finish my extraction. May make it 50:50 though, rather then 70:30. Like I say, I wan't it to stay in my head dab nabbit. Oh, and also the smell of burning caapi now gives me a sinking feeling after that bloody trip. Every time I walked back in to the room after mates had done their hits I felt my stomach drop and my arsehole clench.

And yet whenever you tell this to a fellow psychonaut, they invariably say 'you lucky bugger'. :|
It's obviously a part of the spice that you /need/ to experience, but I wouldn't wish it on people twice.

Jbark, disturbingly similar. For brevity I just call in Andross, hence my avatar. Thread in here called 'Don't bong 70mg on 3 hours sleep'. Better explanation of the feeling of doom there. This was all of that, and then some.
 
Check out Changa and Enhanced Leaf Blends:

Changa Blend Golden Temporal (50/50 Caapi/Pau d'Arco at 1:1 with Spice) - This can be a very loving teacher.
Enhanced Leaf Electric Sheep (Blue Lotus at 1:1 with Spice) - This has only ever loved me. It always delivers the friendliest trips. For me, this is the Roller-Coaster of love through Hyperspace.
 
I was with Bonny on saturday night. Three (or was it two) trips to Nirvana, one trip to hell.

I must admit to being a little confused. Did we enter hyperspace, or does that place lay on the other side of the ego-death terror? I've read numerous accounts of people meeting the machine-elves etc, but do not recall them saying that breaking through the ego-death insanity-barrier was mandatory.

So I'm thinking my good trips were very shallow, even though what I experienced was utter perfection (I remember thinking, very clearly, that if eternity was like that I could see myself being happy to inhabit it forever). We had trance music on, and it became a core part of the experience. I was able to narrate my experience as it unfolded and remember the patterns I saw with crystal clarity (I could draw them if I needed to). Are these clues that they were very shallow trips?

The trip to hell was very different. The two good ones were at two different levels, the second being deeper (hit the bong harder), in that the patterns became more complex. The hell-trip crashed straight through those two levels, the familiar pattern becoming dis-coloured, warped and threatening. I was still conscious of the music but could no longer engage with it. The next ten minutes (or so it felt) were akin to a desperate struggle for survival. My greatest fears were a) insanity and b) that I had physically damaged/burned-out my brain. When I opened my eyes everything was in red and green and kalaidascoping wire-frame, so insane it scared me worse than having my eyes shut.

My consciousness was there but not properly intact, if that makes sense. It was as if a core-consciousness underlaid a fragmented one. I'm thinking maybe the real consciousness (that survives the death of the body) had become disconnected from my brain? I was aware, continually, that "this can last only a few minutes and my body won't die...", but underlying that was the fear my brain was damaged and that my heart might explode (I could feel adrenalin being dumped into my system in alarming quantities, or so it felt on two distinct occasions).

At no time was I aware of any overt presense, though the bad trip did feel very malign. No entities, nada. I was doing 50mg ~ 60mg on each trip, though probably only on the last one did I come close to getting the full dose. Bonny thinks maybe the Caapi interfered with the spice?

Anyway, I have no fear of going again, thinking that I know the dose required for Nirvana and the dose to avoid to steer clear of hell. Unless hell is the gateway to hyperspace...this is still an unknown.

Thanks for reading. :)
 
Hetzer said:
Bonny thinks maybe the Caapi interfered with the spice?

It certainly seems to shift it's modus operandi.

All the trips before caapi were very much in my head, and reality was merely a question of regaining enough composure to open my eyes.

Caapi seems to strip that refuge away from you, and infact leaves you no option but weirdness (if you're going to that place).

That said, you and Rich had pleasant and reasonably deep (Rich especially) CEV trips with Caapi in the bowl, so perhaps it's just me.

I've always been a tad peculiar.

Oh and it was three. You did one, waited an hour or so. Then did one, then went on top of that, then went on top of that and met Andross (so to speak).
 
I don't personally think hell is the gateway to hyperspace - I think it has a lot to do with dosage. On large doses it can come at you superfast and it can be pretty, shall we say, "unloving" - You guys know what I mean. I tend to find it harder to let go on this type of journey, whereas when the dose is absolutely right, it is sweetness, light and love and I surrender willingly.

So if I were you, find the sweet spot and stick around there ... I don't think you have to go through hell to experience hyperspace.

safe travels!
 
Thanks 88, I was kind of leaning to that explanation. I'm thinking that the spice is 'just a drug', and too much of it scrambles the brain to the point it can no longer function coherently. So, basically, I over-dosed on it and went beyond the point where it could have any beneficial effect.

So...that was hyperspace then. Well, I can't say it revealed anything particularly profound, in that I interfaced with any consciousnesses I considered seperate from my own, but in terms of a 'high' it was truly mind-blowing. It...was...utter...perfection. Ecstacy, euphoria, bliss, nirvana, oneness with god, the universe. To actually feel that one could be in that state forever and never want or need for anything else, that is some seriously deep shizzle.

I guess I thought it was 'shallow' because I didn't meet the elves. But maybe the music blocked them in some manner?

Whatever, I went to heaven and it was truly memorable.:d
 
Actually I'm having second thoughts on this.

If one overdoses stupidly, to the point beyond the inducement of terror/insanity, is it possible the brain would just black out and ones consciousness would become detatched from the brain? In effect, brute-forcing a genuine OOB? At which point one would 'wake up' in the 'other realm' (the place we go after we die)?

In that case, any danger the body would die?

I'm thinking it would take a serious pair of balls to go for it.
 
Hetzer said:
Actually I'm having second thoughts on this.

If one overdoses stupidly, to the point beyond the inducement of terror/insanity, is it possible the brain would just black out and ones consciousness would become detatched from the brain? In effect, brute-forcing a genuine OOB? At which point one would 'wake up' in the 'other realm' (the place we go after we die)?

In that case, any danger the body would die?

I'm thinking it would take a serious pair of balls to go for it.


Usually there is a blackout. Very often there are journeys where you don't black out but you bring nothing back, nothing. Gone, like a dream that never happened. Pure DMT only lasts a few minutes, so you're back from the nothingness before you even know it. But on very large doses, you are consumed by the blackness. You black out, proper.

Now, a Caapi tea, a few bowls of Caapi leaf before hand and/or some serious changa will keep that portal open longer, much longer. So, you don't want to try herostupid doses on Caapi tea. You follow?

The body won't die, you just black out. You'd look like you were asleep.

You sound like you've got that pair of balls ;-)
 
Bonny said:
ghostman said:
You sound like you've got that pair of balls ;-)

He's trying to get me to do it for him, the big gay :lol:

Well it sounds like so far he is more receptive to what should happen on large doses, so I think your mate should step up. ;-)

Oh, and hold the bong, pipe or whatever for him so that he can take 3-4 looooong, slooooow, biiiiig hits.

Do report back! I'm just making popcorn.
 
Nice to read about group sessions from different members. Fine comments too! A pity I don't know anyone in 'real' life who is seriously interested in exploring this molecule. Tried to convert a few but they won't invest serious time and energy in it.

So...that was hyperspace then. Well, I can't say it revealed anything particularly profound, in that I interfaced with any consciousnesses I considered seperate from my own, but in terms of a 'high' it was truly mind-blowing. It...was...utter...perfection. Ecstacy, euphoria, bliss, nirvana, oneness with god, the universe. To actually feel that one could be in that state forever and never want or need for anything else, that is some seriously deep shizzle.
I wouldn't call that shallow! Don't worry about ego death, breakthrough - these are just words.

It's a long-term process of many launches and they are all interconnected, and also connected to life and our actions here... and be careful what you ask for, because you might get exactly that - which can be a little too much ;)

While playing the game, we have to find out the rules.
Some trial & error and difficult experiences are inevitable. Going back after a difficult experience with good preparation and clear intent might be rewarded beyond expectation... it seems they appreciate a bit of dedication.
 
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