Manoramix
Rising Star
Hello,
I recently found out that there is a fair amount of alcaloïds in Phalaris Arundinacea, which is very abundant in the part of the world to which I belong. I personnaly prefer to work with local plants, and that's why I came to try a phalaris extraction.
There is a lot of talk about gramine presence in Phalaris, which is not only unpleasant but also very toxic. I've done quit some research about separation methods of the two molecules, but since they are very similar in structure, I have not yet found a effective and easy separation method.
What I know is that they differ slightly in polarity (If I am not mistaken, gramine is less polar than DMT), however there does not seem to be any information on internet about a state (a specific salt form) in which one molecule would be soluble in a particular solvent and not the other.
For extraction I use citric acid, does anybody have information about solubility of DMT citrate and Gramine citrate in different kind of solvents? If not, in another form? What about the freebase form? I've read that gramine is insoluble in water, is this also true for gramine citrate? If yes, would it be possible to remove it by filtration in the first step of extraction? If insoluble, is it heavier than water? Would it fall to the bottom of the mixture?
I also understand that it would be possible (although very difficult) to destillate the mixture since the boiling points of gramine, DMT and 5-meo-DMT differ. However the information about specific boiling points varies extremely from one source to another. And the destillation would have to be performed under vacuum to avoid oxidation... Unfortunatly I don't have access to this kind of labware...
Now, i've read a couple of times that gramine is destroyed when smoked, is this true?
Besides the potential separation of the two molecules (I don't really care if I lose the bufotenine or the 5-meo in the process of doing so...), is there a way to selectively destroy the gramine?
Now, if, as it seems to be, there really is no effective and easy technique of separating the gramine from the rest, does anybody know what the potential short and long term health damages from gramine are?
It's been a few weeks since I first started looking for some answers too this question, but nobody seems to know anything, and discussions about this topic seem mostly to bee made of wild speculations. I would profoundly appreciate any help from anybody that as performed an effective separation of the two...
I recently found out that there is a fair amount of alcaloïds in Phalaris Arundinacea, which is very abundant in the part of the world to which I belong. I personnaly prefer to work with local plants, and that's why I came to try a phalaris extraction.
There is a lot of talk about gramine presence in Phalaris, which is not only unpleasant but also very toxic. I've done quit some research about separation methods of the two molecules, but since they are very similar in structure, I have not yet found a effective and easy separation method.
What I know is that they differ slightly in polarity (If I am not mistaken, gramine is less polar than DMT), however there does not seem to be any information on internet about a state (a specific salt form) in which one molecule would be soluble in a particular solvent and not the other.
For extraction I use citric acid, does anybody have information about solubility of DMT citrate and Gramine citrate in different kind of solvents? If not, in another form? What about the freebase form? I've read that gramine is insoluble in water, is this also true for gramine citrate? If yes, would it be possible to remove it by filtration in the first step of extraction? If insoluble, is it heavier than water? Would it fall to the bottom of the mixture?
I also understand that it would be possible (although very difficult) to destillate the mixture since the boiling points of gramine, DMT and 5-meo-DMT differ. However the information about specific boiling points varies extremely from one source to another. And the destillation would have to be performed under vacuum to avoid oxidation... Unfortunatly I don't have access to this kind of labware...
Now, i've read a couple of times that gramine is destroyed when smoked, is this true?
Besides the potential separation of the two molecules (I don't really care if I lose the bufotenine or the 5-meo in the process of doing so...), is there a way to selectively destroy the gramine?
Now, if, as it seems to be, there really is no effective and easy technique of separating the gramine from the rest, does anybody know what the potential short and long term health damages from gramine are?
It's been a few weeks since I first started looking for some answers too this question, but nobody seems to know anything, and discussions about this topic seem mostly to bee made of wild speculations. I would profoundly appreciate any help from anybody that as performed an effective separation of the two...
