Harmala dosage for pharmahuasca

[biohazard72]

Not sure if this is the right place (could go in pharmahuasca?). But anyway.

TEK: (Adapted from endlessness guide! Thanks!)
Start: 113 g Syrian rue seeds

1. Ground seeds in blender, added to pot.
2. Added 2 cups water, .5 cups vinegar.
3. Boiled for a half hour.
4. Strained through cut-up section of old t-shirt.
5. Added seed mush back to pot.
6. Repeated 2-5 3x, for a total of 4 pulls.
7. Combined liquids and reduce to ~ 500 mL.
8. Let sit overnight.
9. Filtered through t-shirt: not much more came out (also, very little sediment was at the bottom, so I decided to Manske at this point because it wouldn't get too contaminated with sediment).
10. Heated to a boil and added salt until it wouldn't dissolve any more. Decanted the liquid away from undissolved salt.
11. Put liquid in freezer.
12. Observed alkaloids crashing out after roughly an hour.
13. Siphoned out as much liquid as possible without disturbing alkaloids.
14. Made water saturated with water by boiling water, adding lots of salt, and then decanting the liquid away from the liquid.
15. Added this saturated water to the alkaloids + mixed. Put in freezer.
16. After an hour, siphoned out as much liquid as possible.
17. Boiled water and added to crystal mush.
18. Filtered resulting solution through coffee filters.
19. Boiled solution, added excess salt and decanted away from salt.
20. Put in freezer for ~ 4 hours (when alkaloids had fallen out and formed a layer).
21. Filtered through 3 coffee filters after swirling to get alkaloids off bottom of jar.
22. Baked coffee filters for a couple of minutes until they were dry.
23. Scraped up and bottled.

Yield: 2.41g (2.13% yield).

Now, I'm lazy right now, and don't feel like getting it purer right away. What might be a good dose for pharmahuasca? The powder is a slightly reddish-tan and chalky. I was thinking 250-300mg might make sense. How pure should it be after 3 Manskes (well, a Manske, a Manske-like wash, and another Manske). Salt contamination appears minimal at best.

Thanks.

 

[kyrolima]

Your dosage should vary between 125 and 200 mg. Better take nearly 200 mg. If you have over 2 grams no need to save it
If you have the money and you are a little bit lazy, order exctracted harmalas or THH from a shop.
recommend: flowingvisions

Greetings

Mr_DMT

 

[biohazard72]

So I tried 300mg harmala extract + 100mg DMT in orange juice.

After 45 minutes, I felt the harmala (slight sedation, listlessness, a comfortable tired feeling), but the DMT was lacking in effects. Dosed 150mg harmala + 100mg DMT in OJ booster.

Furthest I got was breathing of surfaces, slight visual movement of the ceiling, and DMT headspace. It was nice because I was emotionally tripping, but visually it was underwhelming.

Next: I'll try 300mg harmala + 200mg DMT in OJ, on an empty stomach. If that doesn't work, I'll have to mess with MAOI timing, as the dosage should be fairly high already.

At the very least, harmala alkaloids don't make me nauseous...

 

[○]

You shouldn't need to up your harmala dose. 200mg of harmalas is quite enough for MAO inhibition. Just try uping the dosage of DMT (i'm assuming your using freebase if your using it dissolved in OJ).

Try eating a few slices of bread or something similar in about 10 minutes after harmala/dmt ingestion to help jumpstart the enzymes in your stomach.


Those 2 things should help you achieve what your wanting. Other than that SWIM and many others reccomend Jorkest's BLAB tek. Very potent fumarate. Good yields and most only need around 30-70mg with 200mg harmalas to get a very overwhelming experience.. I can speak from experience

~Compassion

 

[biohazard72]

Well, I underwent an experiment today.

Decided to go with 400mg harmala, 200mg DMT in cola, on an empty stomach. To see if I'm really resistant to DMT, I made the harmala dose massive, in the thought that I can handle any nausea it creates. It was my first harmala extraction so I really didn't have any firsthand experience on the potency, which is why I went so high.

Well it was a quite powerful trip both visually and emotionally, lasting around 2 hours. But I was pooping my guts out from the harmala and it wasn't a good trip (probably should have put more thought and preparation into it).

So what have I learned?

200mg DMT = slightly too strong to be workable
100mg DMT = too weak
300mg harmala = feel harmalas, not overwhelming
400mg harmala = shit myself, feel way too sedated.

Lesson?

250mg harmala, 150mg DMT should be ideal. Empty stomach with food available, preferably hot and easy to eat (stew seems ideal). Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches just aren't easy enough to eat (too dry/sticky)

Also, cola sucks because it's carbonated. Either flat cola or OJ next time for me.

Next experiment I suppose is to vary the timing, but I'm not looking to trip for a while now.

 

[joebono]

Two hours? Damn, that is a short trip considering how much DMT and MAOI. That would be a six hour trip for me. Next time take the MAOI and wait 30 minutes before the DMT.

 

[Ice House]

400mg harmala, 200mg DMT ..... Wow! I get scared even thinking about what that would do to me. You have either one in a million body chemistry or your doing something wrong when you dose. or you spice is weak?
or?

 

[biohazard72]

Both were quite excessive doses. I was just doing it for experimental sake, to make sure I was isolating the effects of DMT on me, without possibly an underdose of harmala effecting potentiation. Last time 100mg DMT wasn't enough, so I doubled the dose. So yeah, that's the logic behind the silly numbers. As an experiment it was successful: as a trip it was uncomfortable. I should have thought of the ramifications better beforehand, haha.

Yeah, it was 2-2.5 hours. My analogue ayahuasca dreams were of similar duration too, and for those I took both brews together. I think I'll play around with timing, because that's fairly short and I've heard it can be extended by delaying the DMT dose.

I'm thinking of dosing half of a harmala dose, and then 30 minutes later dosing the rest + DMT. I'll definitely report the results when I try.

 

[Trickster]

400mg harmala, 200mg DMT ..... Wow! I get scared even thinking about what that would do to me. You have either one in a million body chemistry or your doing something wrong when you dose. or you spice is weak?
or?

Looks like there are 2 of us in a million.

Last time SWIM took 300 mg harmala + 120 mg DMT in 5 minutes = an hour of slight nausea and dizziness.

Next time it will be 300 mg of harmala + 200 mg DMT. What a waste! The spice is good. It has been tested by a friend. 35 mg evapped in a machine have sent this cat to deeper regions of hyperspace.

 

[panoramix]

hay

i se some high dose of dmt here ar we talking about freebase dmt or DMT fumarate becous trav told me if u have DMT fumarate 60mg f dmt and 125mg harmala wold be more then enouth jorkes olos told my this so wy wheast freebase (if it is freebase) and not use DMT fumarate.

greeder

 

[endlessness]

yeah it does seem that at least for some people taking freebase is very innefective way to do it.. Also people taking in capsules report problems. I think fumarate or any other salt of dmt in solution is much better absorbed, so if you guys reporting the need of big doses didnt try that, do it next time

 

[Trickster]

yeah it does seem that at least for some people taking freebase is very innefective way to do it.. Also people taking in capsules report problems. I think fumarate or any other salt of dmt in solution is much better absorbed, so if you guys reporting the need of big doses didnt try that, do it next time

SWIM's taken harmala freebase extract and freebase DMT thoroughly mixed with fresh OJ, so both should be citrate salts.

 

[shufflelot]

just to add, my dose needs are pretty similar,
340mg of rue extract with 110 dmt in OJ, 10 minutes later another 100mg in OJ.
I dont fully understand the fumerate vs freebase to be honest. I suppose its freebase because its the powder left over from an STB
the end of the trip was pretty painful and it seems eating may have jumpstarted enzymes and caused 2 seperate waves, not sure if I like it like that. So perhaps I can lower the rue and increase the dmt, or convert it to fumerate...?

 

[69ron]

Part of the reason for a second wave in the effects of ayahuasca (containing both THH and harmine) or pharmahuasca (based on simple rue extractions containing both harmine and harmaline) is the fact that there's at least two major MAOIs in action and they peak at different times.

Not only do the harmala alkaloids act as MAOIs, but they also potentiate the effects of DMT by means of their additional psychedelic action. So as one harmala alkaloid peaks, you get a DMT peak, and then as the next harmala alkaloid peaks, you get another DMT peak. This is not from MAOI, but from the harmala alkaloids having effects in the brain that potentiate DMT’s effects. The time difference between the peaks of the two main harmala alkaloids present (either as harmine and THH in caapi, or as harmine and harmaline in rue) varies depending on when they are ingested, what else was ingested with them, and how fast your stomach is digesting at any given time. That means that sometimes, the peak will happen at roughly the same time for each, giving what seems to be a single peak in the experience. At other times, they peak at different times, giving the distinct impression of two separate peaks.

 

[shufflelot]

thnaks for clarify 69ron. sorry for sounding simple, but your saying then because rue has both harmine and harmaline theyliterally peak at different times? The first peak was quite nice albeit a little bit weak,something I'd like to exlpore further. The second peak started great but ended awful and scares me now Is it as simple as isolating the different harmalas and working with them individually or is that wishful thinking?

 

[Trickster]

just to add, my dose needs are pretty similar,
340mg of rue extract with 110 dmt in OJ, 10 minutes later another 100mg in OJ.
I dont fully understand the fumerate vs freebase to be honest. I suppose its freebase because its the powder left over from an STB
the end of the trip was pretty painful and it seems eating may have jumpstarted enzymes and caused 2 seperate waves, not sure if I like it like that. So perhaps I can lower the rue and increase the dmt, or convert it to fumerate...?

Aha! So there is a pattern. 2 days ago SWIM had exactly the same experience.

380 mg of rue extract
200 mg of spice in 5 min.

Nice but weak first wave for 1h 30min. Completely at baseline at +2h. Than the second wave that was easily the worst experience she ever had.

For SWIM the second wave was clearly connected to drinking a glass of sparkling water.

Hmmm. For the next time SWIM thought of leaving rue as is but lowering DMT from 200 mg to 150 mg.

 

[shufflelot]

That is interesting, I was thinking perhaps the rue harmalas caused the discomfort in the second wave (I ate a little popcorn prepared with oil, probably a dumb thing to do) and was considering trying less rue and possibly even more dmt if not the same. Be certain to report back if you do try I'm really curious how to get around that physical blow in the second wave.

 

[Trickster]

That is interesting, I was thinking perhaps the rue harmalas caused the discomfort in the second wave

SWIM's going to check this theory by taking 380 mg of harmalas alone under the same conditions, i.e. a slice of bread and some butter before the journey and then a glass of sprkling mineral water in 1.5 hours.

(I ate a little popcorn prepared with oil, probably a dumb thing to do)

SWIM thinks it could be anything that speeds up absorption in your stomach.

Be certain to report back if you do try I'm really curious how to get around that physical blow in the second wave.

Sure. You too.

 

[rawmo]

400mg harmala, 200mg DMT ..... Wow! I get scared even thinking about what that would do to me. You have either one in a million body chemistry or your doing something wrong when you dose. or you spice is weak?
or?

yeah that's a lot -
I've been basing on approx 0.7mg per kg of body weight of DMT phosphate (i seem to remember reading somewhere that goes thru the stomach easier??].

that gets a good 1.5 hrs aya full noise [after 20 min lead in generally] and then a total of 5-7 hrs for the whole thing
If nothing much is happening after say 1 hr I have some bread and it always kicks in after another 15-20mins.

 

[Nordic]

So, you guys are just swallowing the RIMA and DMT at the same time...? as far as I understand there is a 3rd variable namely the time between takeing the 2 spices.