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Harmalas and my sanity - a question for other harmala users

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Pup Tentacle

Pup Tentacle

lettuce
Alright, I've been searching and am not finding info on this. Maybe my word choices are bad - maybe I'm crazy ( definitely feel crazy right now).

For about 10 days now, I've been dosing full spectrum harmalas that I extracted from rue. Some days it's been vaping FB, some days it's beed eating caps of HCl. No daily amount was over say 250mg and I'd say I've done it 7 out of 10 of those days.

I am on NO prescription medication. Two weekends ago I had some psilocybin and the experience was wonderful. Not fun…. wonderful. This past weekend I had some more psilocybin…. again…. very difficult, not fun, but fantastically rewarding. It almost seemed like 100 sessions of psychotherapy in 4 hours.

I came out of both sessions very thankful for what I'd gotten. The last session seemed more like medicine. No recreation, no pretty lights, all deep, introspective stuff, realizations, and re-arrangements of my chi.

Onto my question/concern. After the first weekend of what I'm calling psilo-huasca, I had a day or two where I was in a rotten mood, absolutely crappy. Often times, in the aftermath of a learning trip like these, I can get little edgy. It seems to stem from realizing all that beauty and unity only to head back to work on Monday to the opposite. Que Cera Cera - I understand that. This was more, very angry, very pissed. Well by the end of the week that had worn off mostly and Saturday brought another psilo-huasca experience… lovely, as I said earlier. Now I'm depressed, feel a lack of hope, angry, seemingly for no reason. I stopped the harmalas saturday morning and I'm pretty sure I'm headed back towards greener mental pastures.

I feel like I've been on anti-depressants and stopped abruptly (from how other have described that feeling).

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

I also feel like I'm only going to use harmalas when I want big medicine. I feel like I have better handle on just how powerful and important they can be as well as how careful I should be with them.

Thanks as always :)
 
Is it possible that your ´normal´ life just needs some dedication and that its not time to take more psychedelics now? The basics, you know, work, hobbies, health, relationships, etc.

Something similar happened to me before and taking a break and dedicating to other things was very rewarding, and allowed the next trips to be more rewarding and not leave me burned out afterwards.
 
endlessness said:
Is it possible that your ´normal´ life just needs some dedication and that its not time to take more psychedelics now? The basics, you know, work, hobbies, health, relationships, etc.

Something similar happened to me before and taking a break and dedicating to other things was very rewarding, and allowed the next trips to be more rewarding and not leave me burned out afterwards.
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Yes.... I am certainly considering this - although I'm pretty careful about making sure business it taken care of.
It really does feel like it emanates from the harmalas though... but if I'm mildly psychotic from all of this.... I may not be thinking/processing well?! haha

Thanks Endlesness :)


Let me also say - that whether or not that's the reason, I'm taking a break til I get it figured out :)
 
Get off the harmalas.


If you are throwing tryptamines/monoaminergics into the mix, then you will have small amounts of residual actives floating around in your bloodstream due to daily harmala dosing.

This will put you at a threshold trip state where you will feel sober but you will NOT be sober. This will amplify all your negative thoughts and bad daily habits.


Notice that on the comeup to a trip, you tend to feel terrible a lot of the time? Then you adjust yourself, your mind, your body, and then the malaise turns into a good feeling? Imagine perpetually being in that comeup state where you feel terrible. That's basically what's happening here.


Plus, psychedelics work their best when they come into the body and right back out, having psychedelics stick around is not good unless you're doing things to promote endogenous anandamide release (natural anti-psychotic).


Get off the harmalas for at least 4 days and do some hot sauna/hot bathing to sweat it all out. In future if you are going to use harmalas daily (I do too), then use ONLY harmalas, and stick to a rigorous diet that does not excite the monoamine system: minimal coffee, tea, cheese, l-tyrosine, etc.


What I have noticed is that harmala has a 'switch' of sorts. If the switch is at position A, it trances you out and you will be in a dazey trance. If the switch is at position B, it makes you hyper-awake and alert; this is from the exact same batch of harmala. I suspect cholinergic neurotransmission is heavily involved, as is glutamate; I have glutamate dysfunction and I experience the same 'fog' from harmala as I do when my glutamate is messing about. Harmalas are acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (prevent breakdown of acetylcholine) and NMDA antagonists (block glutamate) aside from the serotonergic effects.


Essentially, you took a full-spectrum drug that hit near enough every major receptor, neurotransmitter uptake and breakdown, then threw other substances into the mix which we know it prevents the breakdown thereof, and now you're wondering what's going on? Get off the harmalas for a few days and watch the clarity come back, and you'll understand what went wrong here.
 
Pup Tentacle said:
I'm taking a break til I get it figured out :)
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i'll say no need to take a break , just don't do it regularly

a few times every month for psychadelic adventures is more than enough for me personally , i do am addicted to cannabis so ........ i dunno what more i could add to this , just do what feels good ......
 
Have you read "True Hallucinations"

it contains an interesting account of someone using caapi and mushrooms for an extended duration with interesting results, you have to take it with a grain of salt, but it is interesting
 
like endlessness said it could be many things, or a combination of what he and embracethevoid said

i still would suggest taking a break from the daily high doses of harmalas.. 250mg or less is a large amount to take daily for a prolonged period. When i was taking full doses daily things got very weird very quickly. I would have strange but fascinating synchronicities/psychic experiences in the middle of class and all throughout the day, which can make going to college a bit more difficult!

while i'm always the one advocating daily harmala use, there can be a downside with higher doses (and with psychedelics in general) in that they definitely highten emotions of all kinds..which can be a good thing, at times...but that, in combination with the fact that they can definitely make you hyper-aware of how much you don't enjoy the daily grind, could be one factor involved here
 
Thanks loads everyone!

What embracethevoid and universecannon describe are EXACTLY how I'm feeling - hypersensitive and unclear - frustrated! ha

In fact.... just understanding this had made me noticeably less agitated.

...in that they definitely highten emotions of all kinds..which can be a good thing, at times...but that, in combination with the fact that they can definitely make you hyper-aware of how much you don't enjoy the daily grind, could be one factor involved here
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Essentially, you took a full-spectrum drug that hit near enough every major receptor, neurotransmitter uptake and breakdown, then threw other substances into the mix which we know it prevents the breakdown thereof, and now you're wondering what's going on? Get off the harmalas for a few days and watch the clarity come back, and you'll understand what went wrong here.
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'

This is also the first time I've done any dosing of harmalas beyond the experience of the day (changa or pharma). It makes a lot of sense.


Let me throw in extra thanks... I don't know what I'd do without all of you... All of my love to you :love:
 
I think it could be the harmalas. I have noticed some unpleasant side effects at times from constant daily harmala use..I get more sensitive to the effects but I also experience changes in my brain chemistry or something that can start to make life weird..I basically had to stop microdosing harmalas but I did it for much longer than you.

I dont think the normal half life of harmalas is really the full expression of effects..they go for days IME. For example the day after I take a full dose I still experience a difference at night in my sleep patterns compared to normal.

I would be cautious about assuming its just your sensitive from being opened up in a trip, and then keep dosing daily. Harmalas for me seem to start a whole cascade of endogenous biochemistry or something. I like them but I dont think I will do the daily microdose thing again.
 
jamie said:
I would be cautious about assuming its just your sensitive from being opened up in a trip, and then keep dosing daily. Harmalas for me seem to start a whole cascade of endogenous biochemistry or something. I like them but I don't think I will do the daily microdose thing again.
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That's exactly where I'm at with them - no daily use - saving them up for medicinal experiences with adds. I really saw the light as far as them being medicine in this last trip.

Thanks Brother :thumb_up:
 
AlbertKLloyd said:
Have you read "True Hallucinations"

it contains an interesting account of someone using caapi and mushrooms for an extended duration with interesting results, you have to take it with a grain of salt, but it is interesting
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I had something like that happen to me after an extended period of daily harmala microdosing with full doses of ayahuasca 1-2 times a week, and periodically for several nights in a row. One day I drank just way too much ayahuasca and I never really fully came for at least a few weeks back to baseline. What all happened is complicated to describe but that was when I stopped microdosing harmalas..I really had to just stop dosing them and start eating really well and sleeping a lot for a few weeks while I slowly becae grounded on earth again. That was a little over a year ago and ever sinse then I have been very cautious about how I work with harmalas. The experience of feeling only half grounded and still sort of tripping for a period of weeks is quite unpleasant even though some aspects of it were interesting.

This is why I think harmalas can trigger some sort of exotic biochemical changes that linger for a period of time, at least in some people when used a certain way.
 
I feel like I've been on anti-depressants and stopped abruptly (from how other have described that feeling).
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I think it could be that you stopped your dosing regimen too abruptly instead of tapering down slowly to avoid eventual rebound effects or withdrawal stuff.
While Rue might not be a prescription drug , i think it's powerful enough to compare in some aspects here.

I have read about this occuring with Rimas/other maois and tricyclic antidepressants as well as ssri drugs... Also it reads like you had an inconsistent dosage pattern with varying routes of administration which could be a bit destabilizing in my imagination.

250mg is a pretty high daily dose to start with, as has been mentioned by someone else ,too.
Either way , I think you will be fine ;) be patient
 
What you describe is how I feel the day after a psilo-uasca experience, but I never have taken harmalas daily.

Glad to see everyone's most likely got it all worked out for you!
 
Jees said:
We all have a hundred reasons, hidden in subconscious for the sake of getting trough life.
They might just beginning to peep up, showing they are there.
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I second this. I've been fighting depression for some time now and it was at least one of the primary drivers for trying aya (mimosa/rue tea). While the tea trips have shown me a lot of areas to focus, I feel like it is the tip of an iceburg of crap and if I were to look at the whole thing at once I would implode.
 
That's funny...

I'm constantly tripping on the natch, and dosing harmalas for a few days brings me to a sort of baseline... Life stops feeling like a rolling acid come-up combined with a MDMA peak, and just gets relaxed, stony and restful.

I definitely do get that brooding paranoia, dysphoria and hypersensitive confusion though... It sets in the evening of dosing, and opens up into a stable state the next morning if taken with a bit of levity. Maybe, such as during a difficult, emotional trip onset, there is a way to navigate through the negative aspects of your relationship with the plant and open it up into something else. All in time and attention, like everything else.
 
Pup Tentacle ..i'd be cautious with the 'psilo-huasca'..
probably the most intense (and not so wonderful) experiences i've ever had was a long time ago with this combination plus not paying careful attention to diet..i wouldn't want to repeat it..personally i'd just stick to psilocybin mushrooms on their own..do they really need 'altering'..?

jamie wrote:
Harmalas for me seem to start a whole cascade of endogenous biochemistry or something. I like them but I dont think I will do the daily microdose thing again.
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..i agree with this..harmalas affect people differently..even at low levels in some people there can be lingering effects, and mood swings (which may be related to potentiation of other things in the system via food etc.)

regular Harmala usgae (incl. ayahuasca) can highly sensitise the system, which may not be in the interests of daily 'normal' functioning/metabolism..
.
 
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