Has anyone conquered the power of intent in altered states?

[FractalShaman]

Many of us take entheogens for a number of reasons. Spiritual growth, knowledge, recreation etc. However I want to know if anyone out there has the ability to use relevant entheogens, travel or expand consciousness and come back with undoubtedly new knowledge or abilities. Im not concerned with the entheogen used, it could be Shrooms, DMT, Salvia, Aya, or whatever your preference is.

Im not talking about going into hyperspace and coming back with a random gift (although that would be great and kudos to those who have) but is there anyone who can consciously travel with an intent to learn something specific and come back satisfied? Because I refuse to believe that those who explore will always be at the whim of the experience rather than exert control(I don’t mean control in an ego sense btw).

SWIM will be upping the quantity of entheogenic use(SWIM has rarely taken nothing but cannabis) in the very near future and after the no doubt wonderful experience I will have initially. I want to focus on what I believe is the true meaning for these substances……focused intent to gain knowledge. And as arrogant as it sounds, I have no doubt I will be able to perform such “miracles” once I have practised sufficiently (maybe my aim is ill placed but I will push the issue to breaking point)

In ancient times shamans would perform such travels to help members of the tribe with issues they couldn’t deal with themselves, and I believe if one person can do it, anyone can do it. Maybe it’s a case that we have to face our own demons individually at first. No doubt we all have them, and nothing is scarier than facing yourselves sometime(most of the time actually). But once we have all purged the emotional and spiritual baggage our modern society has programmed us to carry, is there scope for us explorers to take the lead.

It would give me such inspiration to hear that someone is out there pushing this sort of work with results.

I have many scientific arguments that would suggest my idea/theories are possible and more so, very achievable, just in case some people think im talking rubbish. And I would be happy to explain as the topic hopefully expands.

All ideas are welcome

Thanks for your time. 8)

 

[Bill Cipher]

And as arrogant as it sounds, I have no doubt I will be able to perform such “miracles” once I have practised sufficiently (maybe my aim is ill placed but I will push the issue to breaking point)

Talking rubbish, you say? I can't really argue.

I think you are in for a pants shitting terror. Walk into this thing with ideas about steering and generally showing it who's boss, and DMT will eat you for breakfast then shit out a traumatized mess.

 

[JIM]

Ask and you shall recieve

You may be able to speak travel and heal with your Chakras
Remember your just a program with leveles and rules

Different Levels have different rules

Goodluck

Jim

 

[FractalShaman]

And as arrogant as it sounds, I have no doubt I will be able to perform such “miracles” once I have practised sufficiently (maybe my aim is ill placed but I will push the issue to breaking point)

Talking rubbish, you say? I can't really argue.

I think you are in for a pants shitting terror. Walk into this thing with ideas about steering and generally showing it who's boss, and DMT will eat you for breakfast then shit out a traumatized mess.

Listen i already said........Im not talking about control in an egotistic way. Intent is a very powerful energy and 90% of the time its very subtle. And if trauma is involved i only reckon it will be there at the start.

Im not being rude but i think you need to read what i said again friend. I think you have missunderstood my INTENT lol.:surprised

 

[FractalShaman]

Ask and you shall recieve

You may be able to speak travel and heal with your Chakras
Remember your just a program with leveles and rules

Different Levels have different rules

Goodluck

Jim

Thats very well put JIM.

I hope at the start i will puncture all levels, probably coupled with trauma. I have had a lot of mental trauma throughout life so dealing with that will be first and foremost from how this stuff seems to work. Hopefully after all that i connect in some way with my higher self. Then rejoin this 4D program and begind tackling each level like you said.

There are def rules depending on what level you operate in. And Only certain energies will be available depending on where you are IMO.

I do beleive that the purer your intent is, the fast you will be able to work and learn. Intent is the key energy with this work IMO.

Thanks for the time. 8)

 

[theTOAD]

just wondering what is your experience with psychedelics? you didnt really mention. just said that you were planning on using more. I applaud your desire to go beyond the act of simply observing, but think you should take it slow. From my very limited experience with spice, and what ive read, id say you should become very familiar with hyperspace before you start trying to impose your will. That has at least been my experience with other substances. At first you just feel the water with a big toe, then you wade in a little, and then if you feel comfortable you can jump in. Personally I feel like you should spend the time to simply see what spice has to offer. Sometimes the greatest truths are found when you dont know what the questions are. Just my two cents. Whatever you do be safe and be sure to keep us updated on your progress

 

[gibran2]

...Im not talking about going into hyperspace and coming back with a random gift (although that would be great and kudos to those who have) but is there anyone who can consciously travel with an intent to learn something specific and come back satisfied? Because I refuse to believe that those who explore will always be at the whim of the experience rather than exert control(I don’t mean control in an ego sense btw)...

Well, it all depends on what your intent happens to be, doesn’t it?

If your intent is to “participate in the mystery”, then you’ll come back satisfied. If your intent is to get tomorrow’s winning lottery numbers, then you probably won’t be very satisfied.

Many people go into these experiences with particular intent. I try to focus more on “set” – mindset, rather than any specific intent. But even those who go in with intent do so (I think) with more general goals in mind.

There are several reasons I never try to exert control during an experience: Many times, the experience is so overwhelmingly beautiful, so perfect, that there is no desire to change it in any way. Other times, the experience is so powerful that I could no more control it than I could control the weather. Still other times, there is no “I” to control anything. Desire to control comes from one’s self, and very often one’s self is obliterated.

An assumption you seem to be making is that your desires, wants, hopes, and wishes prior to an experience will remain intact during an experience. This is seldom the case.

 

[Shayku]

Well, this experiment would certainly be interesting to read about in the context of people's beliefs about DMT and Ayahuasca. A lot of people like to tell the story of the Shamans who coupled Ayahuasca with a bit of a new plant to discover meaning about that plant. Others take the divination further, taking as litteral truth the idea that these substances allow the traveller to really access consensual reality in different ways, different time frames, different spatial parameters. I think a lot of us recognize that these beliefs stem from mythification, but the question remains essentially unanswered.

I have to agree with Art though, trying to "gain" real world knowledge or trying to "prove" things in hyperspace seems rather insensitive in the face of something so immense, so complex, so alien. I tend to let them do the driving as much as possible, only chiming in when it seems to want me to and I feel comfortable. If you think you can just ride into hyperspace and go where you want to go, I think you have another thing coming, but I'll be happy to read about your progress.

 

[Felnik]

I suggest getting your feet wet first and see what its like.
This stuff is way beyond all the things you read about peoples experiences.
It's so deeply bizarre and personal you won't even be able to wrap your head around it for a long while.

Working with it in a practical useful way is very elusive, possible but elusive and difficult.
No matter how grounded and sane you feel this stuff will take you to the outer reaches of sanity.

I always say try it first then talk.

The starting point baseline is no expectation or grand intention.
The experience must be allowed to grow and evolve within you.

The progress starts when you reach a point where your scared shitless to even do it.
you can go along while before getting there but if you continue it will happen.

The overwhelming fear forces an alignment in your life that eventually allows more of the true essence of the experience to shine though.

 

[JIM]

The progress starts when you reach a point where your scared shitless to even do it.
you can go along while before getting there but if you continue it will happen.

The overwhelming fear forces an alignment in your life that eventually allows more of the true essence of the experience to shine though.

Impressive words , how true

Jim

 

[FractalShaman]

Well, it all depends on what your intent happens to be, doesn’t it?

^^^^^^^Exactly:!:

I think some people have gotten lost in the syntax of my words rather than trying to discern where im coming from.


Plus I am not claiming that I will be able to go into hyperspace and “take over” its not my intention!!!
I made this point clear in my first post but I think it has been overlooked for some reason. I suspected some would find the comments arrogant, even though that’s not my intent at all.

I appreciate the fact many of you are giving generally good advice, such as:
Take it step by step
Don’t have any intentions at the start
Different levels have different rules
Don’t rush into things…..etc

For those who raise eyebrows at the question. IT WAS ONLY A QUESTION!

Plus I believe
that not believing in your ability to transcend being nothing but an observer leads to a state of mind that hands over responsibility to something else(which is the critical problem with all religions IMO). I think also by simply following leads to a sort of psychedelic religion, and i dont think that path is any better than any of the religions up for sale at present. Blind submission is a negative IMO, but please dont cofuse this with humility!

Im not claiming things will happen overnight, it may take years! But im willing to try.

Maybe I could have expressed my ideas in a more understandable way. What I think is more appropriate is to eventually transcend being simply an observer through the experience, eventually(maybe) leading to your intent shaping the experience.

A wise man once told me “Everything happens exactly how it was meant to happen despite having free will”.

This suggests that even the episodes where you feel you are just experiencing psychedelics must be mustered from your intent, despite how consciously unaware of it you maybe. So I preclude that if you could tap into that deep seeded subconscious intent, then on this argument you could eventually begin to work with that intent.

Ps I believe that its deep into subconscious intent where the power of so-called “miracles” reside! Or is that conjecture arrogant also?:idea:

Dr Thomas Campbell (physics/consciousness researcher) Author of “My Big TOE”

rather long but worth a watch
Says that every system(biological/digital) has the universal evolutionary aim of reducing entropy. And once entropy is reduce the system then has the ability to use its energy source for productive work, rather than the reduction of entropy!

Basically he says….the less chaotic the system the more expendable energy the system has to do work.

Now if you take this premise into what I was saying…..once the chaos of the initial introduction to psychedelics has passed and you deal with the emotional baggage it stirs up(maybe some people have the amazing capacity to deal with ALL their idiosyncrasies but im yet to meet such a person).

Then as the entropy reduces you may have sufficient energy to tap into the sub-conscious and begin to work with such energies.

Isnt that what meditation is all about?????? Mmmmm?:?:

I hope this post answers more questions than it may pose.

Thanks for your time again 8)

 

[gibran2]

...Plus I believe
that not believing in your ability to transcend being nothing but an observer leads to a state of mind that hands over responsibility to something else(which is the critical problem with all religions IMO). I think also by simply following leads to a sort of psychedelic religion, and i dont think that path is any better than any of the religions up for sale at present. Blind submission is a negative IMO, but please dont cofuse this with humility!

Im not claiming things will happen overnight, it may take years! But im willing to try.

Maybe I could have expressed my ideas in a more understandable way. What I think is more appropriate is to eventually transcend being simply an observer through the experience, eventually(maybe) leading to your intent shaping the experience.
...

You’ve mentioned two roles we might take while visiting the immaterial realm – that of observer and that of “shaper”, but there’s an important role you haven’t mentioned, and it’s the role I most often take when visiting: that of participant. In my deeply humble opinion, there is no greater gift that can be given than the opportunity to knowingly and consciously participate in the divine mystery. While participating, there is no need or desire to shape the experience – there is a loving intelligence much greater than my own shaping it.

Think of your role in hyperspace the same way you might think of your role as a guest at a wedding celebration. As a guest, you are more than a mere observer – you are an active participant. And as a guest, you understand that it isn’t your role to steer or shape the event – the wedding ritual has it’s own form, follows it’s own path, and doesn’t need to be shaped or steered.

Participation is everything.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

An assumption you seem to be making is that your desires, wants, hopes, and wishes prior to an experience will remain intact during an experience. This is seldom the case.

:d Yea, this is why I meditate on something like "love" or I focus on the emotions associated with memories of my grandfather or something similarly abstract prior to smoking.

 

[FractalShaman]

...Plus I believe
that not believing in your ability to transcend being nothing but an observer leads to a state of mind that hands over responsibility to something else(which is the critical problem with all religions IMO). I think also by simply following leads to a sort of psychedelic religion, and i dont think that path is any better than any of the religions up for sale at present. Blind submission is a negative IMO, but please dont cofuse this with humility!

Im not claiming things will happen overnight, it may take years! But im willing to try.

Maybe I could have expressed my ideas in a more understandable way. What I think is more appropriate is to eventually transcend being simply an observer through the experience, eventually(maybe) leading to your intent shaping the experience.
...

You’ve mentioned two roles we might take while visiting the immaterial realm – that of observer and that of “shaper”, but there’s an important role you haven’t mentioned, and it’s the role I most often take when visiting: that of participant. In my deeply humble opinion, there is no greater gift that can be given than the opportunity to knowingly and consciously participate in the divine mystery. While participating, there is no need or desire to shape the experience – there is a loving intelligence much greater than my own shaping it.

Think of your role in hyperspace the same way you might think of your role as a guest at a wedding celebration. As a guest, you are more than a mere observer – you are an active participant. And as a guest, you understand that it isn’t your role to steer or shape the event – the wedding ritual has it’s own form, follows it’s own path, and doesn’t need to be shaped or steered.

Participation is everything.

Nice response, i like the analogy.

But i think miracles do come from a place deep in the subconscious. And since all is connected(as above, so below) then in your example, who’s wedding is it? Surely its your own wedding and you are simultaneously the bride, groom, and the guest?

So to take it a step further, there may be parts of us that were only meant to be guests(maybe this 4D reality we reside in proves that), but there are also parts of us that DO shape the event at different levels, bride, groom, or even bridesmaid?

But the point i made about Entropy before holds true!

So once we reduce the chaos and have that excess energy at our disposal, what could you propose we use it for?

And also, i think the idea that we are at the whim of psychedelics, or there is something greater "out there" and we should simply be privileged to simply be acknowledged coincides with the ideas religions instils. And through discernment, that doesn’t sit well with me.

I think the new mind of man that is emerging in our day and age needs to be careful with just substituting the paradigm of old, with new paradigms. After all they are still paradigms! We don’t want psychedelic to become the new Christianity!:roll:

Each and everyone is a slice of “GOD”. We are all fractals, where by even though we are a portion of the whole picture, every detail of the collective resides inside each and every part. No matter how thin the slice.

thanks

 

[Shayku]

What's a miracle?

 

[gibran2]

Nice response, i like the analogy.

But i think miracles do come from a place deep in the subconscious. And since all is connected(as above, so below) then in your example, who’s wedding is it? Surely its your own wedding and you are simultaneously the bride, groom, and the guest?

So to take it a step further, there may be parts of us that were only meant to be guests(maybe this 4D reality we reside in proves that), but there are also parts of us that DO shape the event at different levels, bride, groom, or even bridesmaid?

But the point i made about Entropy before holds true!

So once we reduce the chaos and have that excess energy at our disposal, what could you propose we use it for?

And also, i think the idea that we are at the whim of psychedelics, or there is something greater "out there" and we should simply be privileged to simply be acknowledged coincides with the ideas religions instils. And through discernment, that doesn’t sit well with me.

I think the new mind of man that is emerging in our day and age needs to be careful with just substituting the paradigm of old, with new paradigms. After all they are still paradigms! We don’t want psychedelic to become the new Christianity!:roll:

Each and everyone is a slice of “GOD”. We are all fractals, where by even though we are a portion of the whole picture, every detail of the collective resides inside each and every part. No matter how thin the slice.

thanks

Back to the wedding analogy: Yes, maybe we are simultaneously bride, groom, guests, etc., but each person at the wedding shapes the wedding only within the context of their role. So depending on how you look at it, you might say that nobody shapes the experience. The experience is what it is, and those participating fulfill their individual roles. No shaping, no steering.

Entropy is a characteristic of our physical universe – a consequence of the way our universe is “constructed”. There is no reason to assume that entropy is a quality that must exist in other “realms” with different physical laws or a lack of physicality altogether.

Whether it sits well with you or not, we often are at the whim of psychedelics. Why do you think so many of us express apprehension and even fear when contemplating our next journey? This is not some kind of new religious paradigm, but rather an acknowledgement that DMT is an extremely powerful mind-altering substance. Also, there is something greater “out there”. You don’t have to take DMT to see that – just look around.

 

[D_Juggz]

This is an interesting concept and good question FractalShaman, i think a lot of the guys are getting you wrong.
I personally think that everyday meditations on stuff that can be researched yourself is a waste of divine moments in time of which there are few in this life.
Meditating on topics like the following could be more productive for the whole, but i have no way of knowing if this is true, what do you think?:
*Universal unconditional love
*End of suffering for all life
*Raising your awareness of what is
*Trusting your higher self and increasing communication with it.

And so on, is this the line of meditations you were thinking about?

 

[joedirt]

I have certainly been able to impart some will into trips. For instance in the fractal realms a strong thought of the color orange will possibly turn the patterns more orange.

I usually go into trips with intent...and it's not always pleasant. Working through your own self baggage will be the hardest part.IMO.

And I agree with this statement a lot as well.

The progress starts when you reach a point where your scared shitless to even do it.
you can go along while before getting there but if you continue it will happen.

 

[FractalShaman]

Entropy is a characteristic of our physical universe – a consequence of the way our universe is “constructed”. There is no reason to assume that entropy is a quality that must exist in other “realms” with different physical laws or a lack of physicality altogether.

That’s my point Gibran2!....we reside in this universe. So for us to observe with the consciousness of who we are on this "time line" we have entropy to contend with.

Whether entropy exists in other realms or not is redundant. Since our frame of reference is from the consciousness that writes this post, or reads it. We resides for all-intents and purposes in the "here and now" for us. So reducing entropy for this waking frame is very important. Maybe another "me" in another dimension doesn’t have this attribute, but we all have it in this 4D world.


The point i was trying to get across regarding entropy is that once we reduce it, "this consciousness" will have more energy (physical and non-physical)


And once a place of calm is reached and a critical entropy threshold is crossed, i believe the possibilities are endless! IMO

Thanks 8)

 

[FractalShaman]

This is an interesting concept and good question FractalShaman, i think a lot of the guys are getting you wrong.
I personally think that everyday meditations on stuff that can be researched yourself is a waste of divine moments in time of which there are few in this life.
Meditating on topics like the following could be more productive for the whole, but i have no way of knowing if this is true, what do you think?:
*Universal unconditional love
*End of suffering for all life
*Raising your awareness of what is
*Trusting your higher self and increasing communication with it.

And so on, is this the line of meditations you were thinking about?

You ask such mind/conscious provoking questions that it would be impossible to answer in one posting. But I will touch on them collectively.

I think 3 points raised are a by-products of one point

*Raising awareness of what is

We live in a world where polarity is paramount and transcending polarity will be a major stepping stone evolving consciousness will have to take. We have to move from a view point of subjectivity to objectivity! Einstiens theory of relativity is a prime example….to shape the general theory of relativity for our purposes let’s just say that everything is relative to the observer.

Take “suffering”….ITS RELATIVE! What may be suffering to one person, maybe heavenly bliss to another person. Same for love/fear, happy/sad, left/right….etc (the list is endless)

This is what makes things so hard for the average person to understand. It confuses the bests of minds! The idea of polarity permeates every aspect of this 4D construct so transcending it will take a balance of mind above anything yet widely expressed. But it can and will be done IMO.

Regarding meditation I will reply another time….A family member has just passed so I don’t have the time to post a lot today soz.

Thanks 8)