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Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds info

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I have just found this page that gives some information


its says 1 HBWR seed has about 0.25mg LSA, and it has this percentage of other alkaloids:

% of Total alkaloid; % dry seed weight

Ergine = 22.68% ; 0.136%
Isoergine = 31.36% ; 0.188%
Ergometrine* = 8.20% ; 0.049%
Lys. alpha-OH-ethylamide = 5.79% ; 0.035%
IsoLys. = 3.98 % ; 0.024%

What do you guys think? Reliable? In the thread I linked the user Pixar has extracted LSA from 100 seeds, that would mean 25mg of LSA. According to PsychonautWiki , Albert Hoffman tested on it self 0.5mg intravenously and described something that sounds to me like a mild trip just about threshold level. So 25mg is 50 times what Hoffman took and it would probably be way to much for a dose.
In fact, always on PsychonautWiki, the doses are:
Threshold: 1 - 3 seeds
Light: 3 - 5 seeds
Common: 5 - 7 seeds
Strong: 7 - 12 seeds
Heavy: 12 seeds +

So with a common dose of 5 seeds you should have 1mg of LSA (plus other alkaloids that according to PsychonautWiki might contribute to the trip) and I would guess that to be quite reasonable since according to this website LSA should be 1/10 of the potency of LSD and 0.1mg of LSD I know is around the average dose for a trip.

So basically all the information I found on the internet seems to be pointing at doses of about 5 seeds apart from that thread here on dmt-nexus, which usually is the best source of info on psychedelics... what am I missing?
 
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IMHO there are several problems here:

First, that there do exist different strains of HBWR which have quite different alkaloid contents (one generally refers to them as being from Hawaii, Ghana/Africa, and India).

Second even the Hawaiian strain ones can certainly vary in alkaloid contents.
The numbers you stated is from one research paper (which gets cited IMHO too often uncritically as being generally true for all these seeds), and as newer research has shown (e.g. from Paulke) the actual alkaloid profile in seeds can be quite different.

Thirdly I got the impression that Kash's tek is quite rough on the ingredients, meaning you will probably lose quite a bit of your actives during this extraction process.
E.g. IMHO the advised PH level is too high, and exposing your stuff to air (fan drying) and light is another killer.
 
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I´m used to use 3-7 seeds (alcoholic extract), for me this will induces mainly an euphoric zen feeling, really relaxed and meditative.

some time ago a test with 14 seeds was done...peak after 4h, heavy bronchoconstriction, strong visuals, round about 6-7h peak + 5h afterglow.

Would never do more than 10...only when there is an effective counter for this bronchoconstriction, this was really unpleasant.
 
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melotikaci thank you so much for your trip report man, it's cool that you kept track of all the things happened in the trip and the time at which they happened. Also interesting that you've been able to outline separate phases of the trip with that precision. Nice one!

Aum_Shanti thanks a lot for mentioning papers, I really like your calm and careful approach, my research has been very superficial in that regard.
Just looked right now for that commonly uncritically cited paper but I haven't found it. Could you link me up to it and to Paulke's research that you mentioned?
Thanks for bringing a more critical eye onto the topic, there are a lot of uncertainties indeed.... but I wasn't expecting uncertainties between 5 and 100 seeds! Do you think that combining yield loss from the extraction tek and lower quality seeds there could be that much discrepancy?

TryptaTom cheers for the report man! How did you go about the extraction procedure?
 
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Do you think that combining yield loss from the extraction tek and lower quality seeds there could be that much discrepancy?
Click to expand...

Yes!
Already the alkaloid content of the different seeds e.g. Ghana vs Hawaiian, according to other people on the net, showed differences of factor of up to 20...(meaning some African seeds were basically not usable at all, as they contained such little amount of actives)
And you can IMHO easily lose another serious factor during the extraction, if you're not aware of what are the enemies of ergolines (high PH, light, heat, oxygen).

Edit:
The original paper of the often cited numbers is from Chao et al ("Ergoline alkaloidal constituents of hawaiian baby wood rose, argyreia nervosa", 1973)
And here as an example another more recent study by Paulke ("Identification of legal highs – Ergot alkaloid patterns in two Argyreia nervosa products", 2014) showing that alkaloid percentage can vary quite some bit.
 
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first extraction was made with Isobutane to clean out the fatty stuff, then the rest of the seeds was ectracted with alcoholic water.

The Isobutane removes some of the nasties which leads to lesser stomach problems.
Up to 7 seeds no problem, more will give little nausea for me.
 
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two attempts with 0.4g and the second time with ~0.5g of powdered seeds have given very mild results, but the first trip opened a door to a new dimension. Absolutely astonishing! I never read of an LSA trip report similar to what I experienced, there was no modulation of common sensory perception nor impairment or enhancement of thought processes, whether verbal or sensorial, but the whole trip was in this different dimension of experience, dimension which with my own words I could only describe as the dimension of God, an almighty and all-encompassing "I" that creates this reality in a similar way to how we humans create thoughts in our imagination: just by doing it.

Anyway, I felt some nausea so I'm probably going to try extracting. I checked kash's tek and I seem to understand that he extracts with acetone first and then defats with naphta. While what was your procedure TryptaTom? First you put the seed powder into Isobutane and then filter away the isobutane and then you do pulls with alcoholic water?
 
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