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Hi MerryPrankster,

welcome to the nexus.
I think for some people it is hard to use religiously-associated words such as God etc. because they are so poorly defined and often linked to doctrines, atrocities, completely irrational behavior and beliefs that are sometimes very life-negating and justify terrible things, etc. etc.

Even terms like enlightenment, spirituality, consciousness, and my favorite - the ego, are sometimes hard to grasp and use. I think each of us has his own idea of what these things are and often these ideas remain uncommunicated while we are discussing what on the surface looks like the same thing, but in the end is only the same word with a completely different meaning manifesting in each of these parties.

The psychedelic experience often causes this mystical experience where you feel like you are in the presence of something so very sacred, something divine... Sometimes I feel like there is something watching me, an omniscient sentience that partakes in every moment of existence. A sentience that is existence. I have had moments where I have wanted to scream out to the world that the cosmos is alive, and God is with us.
I am not a religious person. But these feelings exist.

What do we do with these feelings and how do we communicate them? I suppose it is like trying to tell someone about a trip to a different country. Even if you have photos or videos of your trip, nothing will be able to truly give the impressions you had. And even your memories will, for yourself, not be able to re-enact these feelings. It's only real when you are in it IMO. This I think is what is so hard about talking about these things. They are not objective realities that one can point to and with which our language can deal easily. They are something else.

I think however that most things can be communicated well enough and at least give ideas of what these feelings are like. I think art can work in this way and so can proper wording when writing a text. I've personally come to the conclusion that things like enlightenment or God can't really be talked about from an objective perspective without falling way short of their entirety. But when speaking out of these realities while one is still, so to speak, in resonance with the experience thereof, then it becomes much more probable that these concepts can become more transmittable. IMO this goes for almost any concept though. The more you are actively conscious of what you are saying and the flow of the communication, the more will the thing you are communicating about become alive.

And this I think is tantamount to true communication.

So, whatever concepts one chooses to use, whatever references, I think it's primary to reflect upon and consider in detail the aspect of communication there. What kind of communication do we wish to achieve? Is it about objective information (science or so)? Is it about subjective information (relaying an experience)? Is it about intersubjectivity (contact with other beings)? Or is it a combination of all three of them? How can we best achieve this?

Moving on, I guess there is a lot to be said about religion, but personally I don't find it very beneficial to get hung up on it. We've read the history books and we can criticise these organizations and groups at length, but where does that leave us? Instead of responding to these things and thereby continuously reinforcing their existence both in our minds and in the outside world I think we can just acknowledge their existence and our opinion about them and leave it at that. Move on to create a better world. Move on to embrace life in its multifacettedness without the restrictions imposed by systems of belief or trained associations.

I wish you all the best my friend.
Hope to hear from you again,

cheers & love
Enoon

<blockquote data-quote="Enoon" data-source="post: 3447817" data-attributes="member: 5949">Hi MerryPrankster, welcome to the nexus. I think for some people it is hard to use religiously-associated words such as God etc. because they are so poorly defined and often linked to doctrines, atrocities, completely irrational behavior and beliefs that are sometimes very life-negating and justify terrible things, etc. etc. Even terms like enlightenment, spirituality, consciousness, and my favorite - the ego, are sometimes hard to grasp and use. I think each of us has his own idea of what these things are and often these ideas remain uncommunicated while we are discussing what on the surface looks like the same thing, but in the end is only the same word with a completely different meaning manifesting in each of these parties. The psychedelic experience often causes this mystical experience where you feel like you are in the presence of something so very sacred, something divine... Sometimes I feel like there is something watching me, an omniscient sentience that partakes in every moment of existence. A sentience that is existence. I have had moments where I have wanted to scream out to the world that the cosmos is alive, and God is with us. I am not a religious person. But these feelings exist. What do we do with these feelings and how do we communicate them? I suppose it is like trying to tell someone about a trip to a different country. Even if you have photos or videos of your trip, nothing will be able to truly give the impressions you had. And even your memories will, for yourself, not be able to re-enact these feelings. It&#039;s only real when you are in it IMO. This I think is what is so hard about talking about these things. They are not objective realities that one can point to and with which our language can deal easily. They are something else. I think however that most things can be communicated well enough and at least give ideas of what these feelings are like. I think art can work in this way and so can proper wording when writing a text. I&#039;ve personally come to the conclusion that things like enlightenment or God can&#039;t really be talked about from an objective perspective without falling way short of their entirety. But when speaking out of these realities while one is still, so to speak, in resonance with the experience thereof, then it becomes much more probable that these concepts can become more transmittable. IMO this goes for almost any concept though. The more you are actively conscious of what you are saying and the flow of the communication, the more will the thing you are communicating about become alive. And this I think is tantamount to true communication. So, whatever concepts one chooses to use, whatever references, I think it&#039;s primary to reflect upon and consider in detail the aspect of communication there. What kind of communication do we wish to achieve? Is it about objective information (science or so)? Is it about subjective information (relaying an experience)? Is it about intersubjectivity (contact with other beings)? Or is it a combination of all three of them? How can we best achieve this? Moving on, I guess there is a lot to be said about religion, but personally I don&#039;t find it very beneficial to get hung up on it. We&#039;ve read the history books and we can criticise these organizations and groups at length, but where does that leave us? Instead of responding to these things and thereby continuously reinforcing their existence both in our minds and in the outside world I think we can just acknowledge their existence and our opinion about them and leave it at that. Move on to create a better world. Move on to embrace life in its multifacettedness without the restrictions imposed by systems of belief or trained associations. I wish you all the best my friend. Hope to hear from you again, cheers &amp; loveEnoon</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Enoon, post: 3447817, member: 5949"] Hi MerryPrankster, welcome to the nexus. I think for some people it is hard to use religiously-associated words such as God etc. because they are so poorly defined and often linked to doctrines, atrocities, completely irrational behavior and beliefs that are sometimes very life-negating and justify terrible things, etc. etc. Even terms like enlightenment, spirituality, consciousness, and my favorite - the ego, are sometimes hard to grasp and use. I think each of us has his own idea of what these things are and often these ideas remain uncommunicated while we are discussing what on the surface looks like the same thing, but in the end is only the same word with a completely different meaning manifesting in each of these parties. The psychedelic experience often causes this mystical experience where you feel like you are in the presence of something so very sacred, something divine... Sometimes I feel like there is something watching me, an omniscient sentience that partakes in every moment of existence. A sentience that is existence. I have had moments where I have wanted to scream out to the world that the cosmos is alive, and God is with us. I am not a religious person. But these feelings exist. What do we do with these feelings and how do we communicate them? I suppose it is like trying to tell someone about a trip to a different country. Even if you have photos or videos of your trip, nothing will be able to truly give the impressions you had. And even your memories will, for yourself, not be able to re-enact these feelings. It's only real when you are in it IMO. This I think is what is so hard about talking about these things. They are not objective realities that one can point to and with which our language can deal easily. They are something else. I think however that most things can be communicated well enough and at least give ideas of what these feelings are like. I think art can work in this way and so can proper wording when writing a text. I've personally come to the conclusion that things like enlightenment or God can't really be talked about from an objective perspective without falling way short of their entirety. But when speaking out of these realities while one is still, so to speak, in resonance with the experience thereof, then it becomes much more probable that these concepts can become more transmittable. IMO this goes for almost any concept though. The more you are actively conscious of what you are saying and the flow of the communication, the more will the thing you are communicating about become alive. And this I think is tantamount to true communication. So, whatever concepts one chooses to use, whatever references, I think it's primary to reflect upon and consider in detail the aspect of communication there. What kind of communication do we wish to achieve? Is it about objective information (science or so)? Is it about subjective information (relaying an experience)? Is it about intersubjectivity (contact with other beings)? Or is it a combination of all three of them? How can we best achieve this? Moving on, I guess there is a lot to be said about religion, but personally I don't find it very beneficial to get hung up on it. We've read the history books and we can criticise these organizations and groups at length, but where does that leave us? Instead of responding to these things and thereby continuously reinforcing their existence both in our minds and in the outside world I think we can just acknowledge their existence and our opinion about them and leave it at that. Move on to create a better world. Move on to embrace life in its multifacettedness without the restrictions imposed by systems of belief or trained associations. I wish you all the best my friend. Hope to hear from you again, cheers & love Enoon [/QUOTE]