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Herbal Forum

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RhythmSpring

RhythmSpring

Established member
Hi Nexian,

I'm wondering if there exists a forum where people talk about their experiences with different herbs. For example, Nettle, Reishi, Agrimony, Cat's Claw, Japanese Knotweed, Pine needles, anything ranging from the common to the obscure, to the experimental. Where people can discuss herbal theory, science, harvesting, personality, preparation, experience, folklore, etc. Psychedelics are awesome and I love talking about them, but there are SO many other valuable plants out there just waiting to picked, both literally and for a topic of discussion.

Could we do that here? Maybe have a subforum for it? Or is there another forum out there on the internet already dedicated to it?

Herbally,
RS
 
In principle, both - there are definitely networks of herbalists out there and while I certainly comprehend the integrated, holistic approach to wortcunning that you outline I'm sorry to say that the only rough approximation of what your describing that springs immediately to mind, 69ron's herbpedia, appears to be largely inactive, as well as of course tending to focus on psychoactivity to a large extent. A brief search for other herbal forums hasn't turned up any with particularly high traffic that I could find.

To some degree, the 'Other Psychoactives' might be the place for this, but we have to bear in mind that once we start approaching anything that resembles medical recommendations it can get a bit iffy.
 
downwardsfromzero said:
but we have to bear in mind that once we start approaching anything that resembles medical recommendations it can get a bit iffy.
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By, "it can get a bit iffy," do you mean, "We have to start worrying about censorship by medical fascists who want to maintain their monopoly on pharmaceuticals and medical interventions"?
 
I think it was more about the general problem of people reading stuff on the internet and mistaking it for medical advice.

A striking example of this is that, apparently, in this era of high-tech and space travel, where mankind has gained a greater understanding than ever about all those extremely big as well as extremely small things that used to baffle us for centuries if not millennia, many people are taking joe rogans ramblings on covid-19 more seriously than what doctors and virologists have to say about it.

Most of us aren't medical proffesionals. Sure, some of us may have stories about how this or that made us feel better or helped us recover from something, but this site is not about giving medical advice and it's just dangerous and irresponsible to pretend otherwise.

And while there is some real and serious science on all kinds of herbal stuff, even with scientific evidence backing it, it can be dangerous sometimes, to just start taking some herbal medicine. There is no fundamental difference between a herbal medicin or a synthetic when it comes to the basic principles.
You need to take the right dose, you need to be aware of possible interactions with other stuff you take, you need to know if it is safe for you to take it regarding side-effects, and you need a proper diagnosis first.
 
And yet, for something as ubiquitous, natural, and ever-changing as plants, the effort to regulate it is, not only futile, but immoral. We as humans, as animals have the right to access, conjecture, make up stories and tell our own stories about them. We cannot protect against the rare moments when people act on stupidity and make a mistake with the knowledge they are given, because that "protection" comes with the hubristic impetus to control.

No, we're not doctors (well, most of us 😉 ). But, plant medicine is not entirely a science, either. It is as much an art as it is a science. The human body is as much a machine as it is a work of art, and medium for expression. As is the art of herbalism. Health and expression are intertwined, and it is difficult to find the line between them.

In my strongly held opinion, the rewards of the dissemination of herbal knowledge are well worth the price of occasional human stupidity.

I would surely be in a wheelchair right now if it weren't for freely given herbal information the internet.

Perhaps context can be given, with words, around such a forum, which would be something like: "Give no advice, only information, personal anecdotes and poetry." I feel strongly about this.
 
I feel ya. I was told I should consider that I might need a wheel chair as well by 40. Im now 38 and don't even have a cane. I still surf 2-3 times a week, and can work - only because I sought out alternative medical treatments.

Of course now any time people try to discuss alternative or functional medicine, someone has to start a rant about Joe Rogan:? because it's constructive.
 
Joe rogan is just the most well known example. The thing is, i sort of agree that plant medicine often works, and also that people are responsible for for their own actions.

But the reason for rants like mine and others is that they prevent people from posting realy stupid advice, like: "don't go to a doctor if you got an STD, but just eat some pigeonshit because it worked for me mum", or something.
 
I don't appreciate the strawmanning of this idea.

A place for discussion of herbs = misinforming people leading averse health events? Hardly. Let's put things in perspective, people. If we want progress, we need to open up conversation, not avoid it.

If it's not happening here, where is it happening? Can anybody point me to an open-minded forum about herbs?
 
RythmSpring, I would be very interested in such a forum.

Just introduced myself to the tea of wild reishi of the local area. I am pleasantly surprised at the healing on mood. Emotional resilience is priceless.
 
RhythmSpring said:
I don't appreciate the strawmanning of this idea.

A place for discussion of herbs = misinforming people leading averse health events? Hardly. Let's put things in perspective, people. If we want progress, we need to open up conversation, not avoid it.

If it's not happening here, where is it happening? Can anybody point me to an open-minded forum about herbs?
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Yeah i'm sorry. I was strawmanning a bit, looking back at what i said there.

The thing is, i am actually very interested in herbal medicine. But when i hear about some herb, and i google it, i will usually see an AWFULL LOT of sites that supposedly provide "information", but that are actually just advertising stuff.

There just is a lot of horseshit out there. And influencers on social media tend to contribute to all that horseshit.

When i can not find any scientific articles on the effectiveness of a herb or substance or complex of substances isolated from that herb, then i usually just tend to be sceptical. "It is believed to" in the world of advertisement=there is zero evidence of it working or being safe, otherwise they would have mentioned it.

Another major thing is whether something was effective in vitro or in vivo. You can kill diseases in vitro with basically anything.

The best are epidemiological studies. Not tested on virusses or cancer cells in test tubes, not tested on rats or little insects, but on lots and lots and lots of people.
 
this is a great idea! herbalism is an ever-important, and largely neglected, topic that used to be a part of every human's life experience before the discovery and aggressive implementation of allopathic medicine.

after twelve years of working in pharmacies, I stepped out of that world and started out on a path to learn more about using herbs for better health. it would be helpful to have more in-depth discussions with others on the topic and share knowledge and experiences.

the touchy touchy attitude of 'medical advice, statements etc etc' around here is pretty goofy by the way-- here are some explicit instructions on how to extract a schedule I substance, but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES post about how an easy identifiable plant that almost certainly grows in your own back yard can help with X or Y bodily ailment! mostly kidding here, but...

Dragonrider, I think you have a partially valid point. there are plenty of people who are just trying to make a buck pushing subpar products on mainstream media platforms; but strictly relying on the internet for knowledge that has mostly fallen to the wayside (and I would say intentionally pushed there) in the age of information is sort of a nonstarter unless you're looking up pdf scans of old publications on the subject matter. that's my opinion and experience at least. I agree that information that was the medicinal science of it's time should not be sourced from an influencer or an ancient wordpress blog.

Blue Vervain has been a goto for me lately-- truly a balm for the harried mind
 
pointy hat said:
this is a great idea! herbalism is an ever-important, and largely neglected, topic that used to be a part of every human's life experience before the discovery and aggressive implementation of allopathic medicine.

after twelve years of working in pharmacies, I stepped out of that world and started out on a path to learn more about using herbs for better health. it would be helpful to have more in-depth discussions with others on the topic and share knowledge and experiences.

the touchy touchy attitude of 'medical advice, statements etc etc' around here is pretty goofy by the way-- here are some explicit instructions on how to extract a schedule I substance, but DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES post about how an easy identifiable plant that almost certainly grows in your own back yard can help with X or Y bodily ailment! mostly kidding here, but...

Dragonrider, I think you have a partially valid point. there are plenty of people who are just trying to make a buck pushing subpar products on mainstream media platforms; but strictly relying on the internet for knowledge that has mostly fallen to the wayside (and I would say intentionally pushed there) in the age of information is sort of a nonstarter unless you're looking up pdf scans of old publications on the subject matter. that's my opinion and experience at least. I agree that information that was the medicinal science of it's time should not be sourced from an influencer or an ancient wordpress blog.

Blue Vervain has been a goto for me lately-- truly a balm for the harried mind
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The touchy attitude here is the result of a host of people we've had here, advertising all kinds of often questionable pills and potions, or giving questionable medical advice.

Especially during the worst days of the pandemic, when there where some people spreading misinformation about vaccines or fake cures like the infamous chloroquine analogues, this eventually reached a point where we decided to no longer tolerate it.

We've also had someone pushing growth hormones a while ago, who was actually a bit of a clown, using multiple usernames to keep pushing that stuff.

So that's where it comes from.
 
Not to my knowledge.

But with herbalism, and the like, in general it can be difficult (online and in person) to separate the people who have a deep desire to learn and engage with the topic (open to the biology, chemistry, etc.) vs those with only a superficial understanding and work only in absolutes. Nature is very nuanced and a lot of people struggle to understand that something can be bad and good at the same time. Something mirrored in most of the Pro/Anti vax crowds. And we've all seen how quickly that conversation can devolve. Which with the superficiality I don't think it's taken off yet...not to say it couldn't with careful guidance.

A book I found wonderful and probably hits all those different categories you wanted to know about is Iwigara. It's focused on North American Indigenous plants, mainly a select few held in great reverence, but if you're in NA I found it to be a wonderful stepping stone to opening the possibilities of what can be done with plants. With a creativity and understanding of nature severely lacking in most Western literature.

Or if you want to have someone to talk to...I don't have the most expansive knowledge but would love to learn more and share what I've acquired. Anyone's welcome to PM me
 
So glad that this thread has been revived. I've recently resumed taking Rhodiola rosea after a ~10-year mostly hiatus. Where can I geek out about this wonderful herb??

The closest things I have found to the forums I seek are:

earthclinic.com

And possibly

Healingwell.com, especially the Lyme disease subforum

But those two are not adequate. The search continues, and thank you people for understanding that it's not a black-and-white issue. Furthermore, there are sites out there that both inform people AND sell things. There are so many things out there that we presume to be mutually exclusive that are not.
 
Rhythm, would you happen to have any book recommendations? I'm always looking to learn more but it's difficult for me to find quality books on the subject.

Rosea sounds quite nice. I've never touched adaptogens much, but I know some people swear by them. Out of curiosity, do you ever feel something akin to withdrawals, or motivation loss, if you stop? Not speaking about rosea specifically but just adaptogens in general
 
breathingneon said:
Rhythm, would you happen to have any book recommendations? I'm always looking to learn more but it's difficult for me to find quality books on the subject.

Rosea sounds quite nice. I've never touched adaptogens much, but I know some people swear by them. Out of curiosity, do you ever feel something akin to withdrawals, or motivation loss, if you stop? Not speaking about rosea specifically but just adaptogens in general
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Hey breathingneon (nice name, btw),

The book I've been referring to the most is Stephen Harrod Buhner's Healing Lyme, but that's only because I've had Lyme disease that has resisted antibiotic treatment. Nevertheless, there is a lot of sage advice in there about herbalism in general, and a lot of the herbs mentioned are applicable to other conditions besides Lyme.

I also have taken a lot of hints from the Peruvian approach to herbalism. I've been blessed with about four months of time spent in Peru and being around plant medicine healers of various sorts. I am super grateful for their influence and it has been really interesting to see the two approaches (Buhner's and the Amazonian) slowly mix in my personal routine.

It's a bit of science, intuition, patience, bravery, diligence, skepticism...

Besides books, I highly recommend seeking out herbal knowledge in your personal connections. Who do you know that knows the ecosystem in which you live? Has a medicine garden? Are there any workshops in your area?

Books are great resources, but without the personal connections and in-person knowledge transmission, the passion wouldn't be there and much of the knowledge wouldn't stick.

<3

Oh and with Rhodiola, I wouldn't say that there's withdrawals, but I definitely notice a difference when I stop, and it's not pleasant. Knowing this, I am making a concerted effort to use the herb to make it so that I don't have to depend on it in the future. I aim to use the energy boost to make changes in my life, environment and my habits that will make being off of Rhodiola rosea less unpleasant, safer, and tolerable.

[post deleted below due to accidental self-reply/post copy] [mod edit - tidied up for you! :)]
 
OrangeEnergy said:
Hi RhythmSpring.
That all sounds like an excellent idea to me. I've been wondering and doing a little searching myself on different herbs characteristics in changa blends. The changa forum has provided an excellent starting point, but I'd definitely like more detailed information.

I'm also a bit disappointed in some of the attitudes on show around the subject, and the argument about 'snake-oil' salesmen pushing substances for a fast buck.
Sure, this happens, but how far do we all need to go to protect some people from themseslves? Some people are always going to fuck things up, no matter how hard we try to help/stop them, and I am certainly very tired of having everything brought down to this level.

Some of the comments around what's been going on over the last few years are also veering very close to the politics I thought we were not supposed to be talking about in here (for reasons I fully support), stated as fact, which I am resisting the urge to comment on any further. It's interesting to me that these comments are also coming from those who seem to want us all to be paranoid about the possibility of anything bad happening to anyone because of some knowledge they have found on this site, or anywhere. Yes we need to be careful, but surely we also need to take personal responsibility at some point, even if the world seem to be under the impression that somebody somewhere can always be found responsible for our fuckups?

"But the reason for rants like mine and others is that they prevent people from posting really stupid advice, like: "don't go to a doctor if you got an STD, but just eat some pigeonshit because it worked for me mum", or something."
If you are stupid enough to take this kind of stupid advice, then I'm really not sure what I can do for you, or why those of us should curtail our sharing of knowledge because of these people.
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I want to apolozige for this remark. It was stupid and unnessecary.

But once again, i want to explain where it came from.

We have always had the occasional snake-oil salesman coming here with the intent of doing busines.

But during the covid period, tensions round this topic ran high.

Studies and articles where being published everyday, that contradicted eachother. Often hastingly. Sometimes with good intentions, sometimes with questionable intentions.

And in the beginning, not much was known.
There where articles that seemed to suggest that hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, andrographis, turmeric, or many other herbs or pharmaceuticals where effective against covid.

Then later on, these claims where being retracted.

But there where always celebrities like joe rogan, alex jones, doutzen kroes, or the president of the united states at that time, donald trump, who kept perpetuating these stories.

There where even medical professionals who joined in on this party, like john campbell or doctor oz.

And so many people kept believing these claims.

It was under these conditions, that we, the team of moderators at this site, felt more or less compelled to double down on nipping any unsubstantiated medical claim in the bud.

We may have on some occasions have overreacted a bit. I think my comment certainly is an example of that.
But as i said, tensions ran high during this period. (And drinking the urine of cows was actually recommended as a treatment for covid by some hindu nationalist politicians in india)

I want to say once again, that as long you are not trying to sell anything, or make unsubstantiated claims, you are completely free to discuss herbal medicine here.

And i think btw, that it is generally a good idea to, in case of doubt, look for some additional sources.
 
dragonrider said:
But during the covid period, tensions round this topic ran high.

Studies and articles where being published everyday, that contradicted eachother. Often hastingly. Sometimes with good intentions, sometimes with questionable intentions.

And in the beginning, not much was known.
There where articles that seemed to suggest that hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, andrographis, turmeric, or many other herbs or pharmaceuticals where effective against covid.

Then later on, these claims where being retracted.
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I appreciate you owning up to your previous comments and thinking this through with me.

The sad fact is that there are contradicting studies and articles virtually EVERYWHERE in medical science. I found out this the hard way in the Lyme disease world.

I have personally avoided a lot of the "this will cure covid" hype, but I did notice that people were saying certain vitamins can help boost the immune system and make the disease process much more favorable and swift. Is this a "cure"? No. Is this valuable information? Yes. Can this information mistakenly be extrapolated as a purported cure and thus censored? Yes. That's unfortunate.

The cure for misinformation is not censorship, but more information.

The cure for sensationalism is not more sensationalism, but again, more information. The more information we allow, the more nuanced of a picture we get. The more helpful it is to more people. Because the picture is not black-and-white. Because people have different ways of going about life and healing. Because of culture. Because of geography, upbringing, economic class, genetics, etc.

If you don't like what someone says, ignore it or argue with them but don't censor them. Censorship is deeply connected to violence.
 
A friendly sharing from your local snake oil salesman who has nothing to sell.

I am a person who has always had a "high functioning" type of autism. As I furthered my understanding of my condition, the first thing that I became aware of was that I get in a terrible feeling disconnection/unconsciousness blocked state when I am not in touch with nature, when I am in cities etc. Difficulties with sleep has been central to my condition. Low quality sleep, difficulty falling asleep etc. I also found out that dairy is a strong factor. I know gluten is also, but I still have not given up on oats as a staple... These "psychedelic experiences" may be adventures for most, but for me using ayahuasca analogues to clear up my awareness and connect to myself and the world is a regular maintenance and a matter of life and death. Now I am a father of 2 years and the burden of responsibilities is extra heavy because of my condition. Handling many things at once is an ability I have almost none of. My child is getting most of my attention, and this is good and even necessary as we have no other family to help raise her, but then I almost feel like a second mother not having resources left for more classic fatherhood responsibilities.

All that aside...

Just got called to trying horsetail tea for clearing out any heavy metal buildup which is a known factor in autism... Horsetail is known to be a detoxifier, having a lot of silica which a chelator...

The other thing is, I know I also need to fast in some way or another. I can feel some toxic debris accumulating in my body and brain. I will turn 40 this year. It seems to be the age when people start feeling aged, and also health cannot.be taken for granted anymore and requires ongoing conscious maintenance.
 
I have seen posts here about magic, telepathy, crystals, homeopathy, alternate dimensions... not too much repression of viewpoints that aren't commonly held IMO. Yes, COVID discussion (and other politicized/social issues) has been out of bounds for a while. I imagine if there were many productive threads on herbalism, it would make sense to organize them into a sub-forum.

I think stating the sources of facts and the bases of observations (e.g. changes in feelings vs. claiming specific effects which aren't directly observable) makes the information much easier to weigh and sort through. It's difficult to have a balanced conversation when unpacking a few casually made claims can take a lot of time and discussion.

No need to call yourself names.
 
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