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Hey everyone :)

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nimbus8

Rising Star
Well its nice meeting you all and i guess its about that time that i introduce myself.
Swims main interest in joining this website is to further my chemical research and contribute what Swim know to assist anyone interested. Swim is currently learning organic chemistry and Swims purpose here is to learn the chemistry behind extracting, altering, discovering and purifying entheogens. Swims current area of interest is performing tlc on local plants and making an effort to document a library of every plant Swim find that contains dmt or psilocybin/psilocin. Swim is interested in using food safe solvents and column chromatography in order to obtain a food safe and pure dmt isolation. I look forward to exploring this wonderful world with you wise folk and at that i wish you well :thumb_up:
 
nimbus8 said:
My current area of interest is performing tlc on local plants and making an effort to document a library of every plant i find that contains dmt or psilocybin/psilocin. I am interested in using food safe solvents and column chromatography in order to obtain a food safe and pure dmt isolation.
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Hey man just joined myself, welcome! :thumb_up:

I like your current area of interest because that is essentially my field. What you do mean by you preform tlc on every plant you find? From an organic chemistry standpoint, TLC = thin layer chromatography. Are you using a solvent to extract different plants and see what info a TLC plate of it will give you, because it isn't much. How much organic chemistry experience do you have and especially with column chromatography (CC). If you want to use CC do you have access to a UV light(with high and low wavelengths) and staining reagents for TLC?

Anyway hope you learn all the info you seek here :) ... There certainly is a lot.
 
Swim knows very little about tlc and column chromatography and thats why it interest him. I know the info from tlc doesnt provide much but Swim has heard people talking about testing for certain compound such as dmt in thing like ayahuasca analogues. In other words they were using it to find substitute plants for making ayahuasca. And yes swim does have the supplies available to perform tlc and cc. As far as solvents go im not sure exactly what solvent to use. Especially in cc where the product would be intended for consumption. Im sure it will differ depending upon the nature of the plant.

Anyway thank you very much for your response and i wish you the best of luck. :d
 
nimbus8 said:
but Swim has heard people talking about testing for certain compound such as dmt in thing like ayahuasca analogues.
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Be very wary of 'what you hear'. TLC is typically not used to identify a compound from a crude mixture. TLC is mostly used as a way of monitoring a reaction from starting material to product to observe the change in polarity as the reaction progresses (assuming you already know which spot is your starting material).

I would have great doubt if anyone was claiming to extract a crude plant, and then claim that a certain spot you see on a TLC is DMT, unless there is an established solvent system for TLC that will give a known rf value for DMT. With a UV light you will likely see any aromatic or highly conjugated organic molecule. With proper staining reagents you will probably just see more organic molecules in there. Being that DMT only contains 1 aromatic ring, it is not THAT UV visible. Typically you may need additional staining supplies such as an Iodine chamber (probably the easiest to use), KMnO4 in EtOH, or another known acid staining solution and a heat gun.

nimbus8 said:
And yes swim does have the supplies available to perform tlc and cc. As far as solvents go im not sure exactly what solvent to use. Especially in cc where the product would be intended for consumption. Im sure it will differ depending upon the nature of the plant.
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There is no 'correct' solvent to use for any given column in organic chemistry. Usually the chemist will preform many TLCs with a variety of solvents, often times even solvent mixtures (this is most beneficial as you can alter the ratio of each solvent to adjust the polarity of the column). Which ever TLC plate shows the best separation, this is the one that will be used, or further modified and then used. Also, I do not think the solvent system will vary greatly from plant to plant as the molecule DMT has the same polarity regardless, so its affinity for the silica gel in the column and solvents are not changing. Only thing that would be changing are the other organic impurities in the plant.

Lastly, if you are using CC, I highly recommend volatile solvents (meaning they evaporate easily). A boiling point lower than that of water would be a good starting point. Afterwards, MAKE SURE YOUR PRODUCT IS DRY. Even if it takes days and days, do not consume until all the solvent is gone, and then some just to be safe. Ingesting toxic solvents is quite carcinogenic and just bad for your overall health.

EDIT: since you say you have access to silica gel, a UV lamp, TLC plates, and such, do you also have access to organic solvents? Over the counter ones like naptha or butane will work, but higher grade solves such as diethyl ether, ethyl acetate, and dichloromethane would be a plus.

Hope this helped a little. Let me know if I can clarify something, although some stuff you will just need to google about basic organic chemistry. :)
 
BTW, I just want to clarify. I am not a natural products chemist nor am I claiming to be. I also want to stress the importance for you to know the quality of your information. Personally I like to stick to peer-reviewed journals if they are an option. If not you need to use your best discretion as to the information you come across and believe.
 
Powerdana, there are charts online that give the rf values of dmt under different solvents. That is why i even thought it would be possible to extract it in different plant matters. I wish there was an easier way to identify and isolate compounds, but to my knowledge there isnt. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me.
 
Ha sorry, I may know my chemistry but I did not know charts such as that existed. Could you link me to it? In a real lab there are way better ways of analytical testing to know what compound is which, but for simple extraction purposes for the average self-chemist, I suppose that guideline could work.

Personally since I have done literally hundreds of columns, I would still be skeptical about what I have obtained because I have been stumped many times (such as spots overlapping rf value) even with other tools such as Mass spec and NMR. My skepticism would be furthered by the fact that crude extraction mixtures still often contain MANY other organics. It can still be done though and once a TeK is established then you should be good to go (I have a feeling someone already developed a procedure for this but since I am new to the scene I have not come across it yet).

I am interested to see more info on this since I do not yet have any DMT specific experience with columns.
 
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