Higher self vs. Aliens

[LucidJ]

___ I was just reflecting on some Salvia experiences that I have had, where I "heard" the voice of an entity communicating with me. Unfortunately it was in the form of mocking harassment, but that’s not the point. Every time this happened I was not overly concerned because, while foreign, I identified the voice as part of my mind. I’m sure this is common either due to one’s direct experience of inner-contact or a philosophical outlook proclaiming that all psychedelic experience is a metaphorical expression from within (Archetypes and whatnot).

___ But here is the thing; If someone is communicating to me directly via thought, Irrespective of an entities status as real or imagined, I am still simply recognizing a thought in my mind. I don't even know the source of "my" thoughts as it is, how could I tell the difference between an alien communication and a revelation of self? And does it really matter? Is it at all meaningful to make a class distinction between say, contact with ones higher-self and contact with a race of mantis androids, when by definition(of ego) "I" am what I happen to "identify" as such? And as the nature of the "Tryp" requires an "inner" journey, who can claim that that ego is unjust in planting a flag in this plot of inter-dimensional real-estate?

___ Initially, I am biased to give greater value to encountering the other as opposed to experience of self. We are told contacting an “alien” race would be one of the greatest achievements in human history (at least with “proof”), while contact with a part of yourself, that is not under direct ego control, simply gains you membership to the crazy-club.

___ When I heard this mocking saliva Imp, then identified it with “me”, I basically was like “whatever dude. I own you” Treating it like some physiological white noise brought about by the natural fear induced by saliva land. I pwned it, and it wasn't a problem. I understand on a stale intellectual level the mantra "All is one" but it seems to be a double edged blade. Either "I" Discover, to ego's chagrin, that "I" don't really exist and all is one in God... or "I" discover there is no distinction between myself and all that I experience within myself (I assume "I" necessarily entail what is within Me.. by definition ) ... thus I am everything. God is me or I is God. It's technically the selfsame place but somehow one seem Enlightened and one seems Luciferian to me.



So what do you guys think? Aliens, or thought-forms? Both? Or (I'm leaning toward this one) shut up who cares? And Why can't I indent at the beginning of a paragraph!?

My head hurts and I haven't even tried DMT yet.

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“In the Beginning there was the void, the nothingness. But the cool thing about nothing is it is unable to do anything, most of all prevent everything from happening. And so everything did. And so there was the “WORD” and with it intelligibility was born of the ineffable. We made arbitrary distinctions between light and dark, you and me. Then the universe manifested this post on this board to ask its self about its own existential confusion. Oi! “

- Quote by you.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

All I can say is, as I continue to explore, I still have no answer. Sometimes interpretations that are useful to waking life are easier to glean on some days, more than others; I've communicated with my inner child, AND I've had giant mantises sit on my chest to perform chiropractic adjustments.

It's best to keep an open mind.

That gave me quite a laugh, by the way. Welcome!

 

[cellux]

I understand on a stale intellectual level the mantra "All is one" but it seems to be a double edged blade. Either "I" Discover, to ego's chagrin, that "I" don't really exist and all is one in God... or "I" discover there is no distinction between myself and all that I experience within myself (I assume "I" necessarily entail what is within Me.. by definition ) ... thus I am everything. God is me or I is God. It's technically the selfsame place but somehow one seem Enlightened and one seems Luciferian to me.

I don't have a conclusive answer to that, but I can feel the danger. If I remember correctly, joebono had plenty of experience with this second kind of unity (the "I" expanding to God, instead of the "I" disappearing in God). Perhaps he can say whether there is anything Luciferian ( egomaniac, delusional, destructive, irresponsible - I suppose that's what you mean by "Luciferian" ) in it.

I think the distinctive feature would be love. If you feel love towards "your" beings (in the second kind of state), then it may be alright. Unfortunately, once identified with everything, there are no reference points any more, so any kind of "love" you imagined will automatically become the One True Love and if this is false or unreal, there will be nobody left to warn you about it.

Finally we become so excited that we begin to lose the reference points of our hope and fear. We lose track of where we are and what we were doing. And then there is a sudden flash in which pain and pleasure become completely one and the meditative state of dwelling on the ego dawns upon us. Such a breakthrough, such a tremendous achievement. And then pleasure begins to saturate our system, psychologically and physically. We no longer have to care about hope and fear. And quite possibly we might believe this to be the permanent achievement of enlightenment or union with God. At that moment everything we see appears to be beautiful, loving, even the most grotesque situations of life seem heavenly. Anything that is unpleasant or aggressive seems beautiful because we have achieved oneness with ego. In other words, ego lost track of its intelligence. This is the absolute, ultimate achievement of bewilderment, the depths of ignorance - extremely powerful. It is a kind of spiritual atomic bomb, self-destructive in terms of compassion, in terms of communication, in terms of stepping out of the bondage of ego. The whole approach in the realm of the gods is stepping in and in and in, churning out more and more chains with which to bind oneself. The more we develop our practice, the more bondage we create. The scriptures cite the analogy of the silkworm which binds itself with its own silk thread until it finally suffocates itself.

 

[LucidJ]

Ya. There probably is no answer that can be stated here that would make sense. I'm sure I'll know the difference when I get there. I think I'm not really expecting an answer, just thinking out loud. I'm on my way toward my first DMT voyage and I am questioning my motives. But whatever I think I'll just do it with Serious respect and see what goes down. I have a background in philosophy and tend to over think things sometimes.

Oh and did I mention... I love you people. I swear I want to cry for joy while reading posts here. I meet sooooo few people who I can talk with.Mind you I can't really post anywhere here.

The zombies want to talk about TV. And work. That's it.

me: "hey buddy, ever like, fly out of body?"
Buddy(with glazed eyes): "I wanna watch the game but I got to work... wanna get drunk?"

So ya thanks for being you. *humps laptop* <---- kidding....... sort of.

 

[eagleeyes]

salvia is strange like that i see you've seen the mantises too! interesting creatures......the first time swim smoked it it was like swim was the cheshire cat being unraveled... hehe once it was like swim was a scorpian smoking the rest of the it by holding it with the pinchers on the scorpian tail.. never lasts very long but interesting nevertheless......definitely learned where alot of those fairy tales originated from with salvia or similar......:lol:

 

[LucidJ]

Haha, lol. I *wish* I had seen things as concrete as scorpions or mantises. I end up in some 9 dimensional space blender where I can see time folding in on itself .... or once I was I pile of rods that just fell over .... once I was a floating smudge? I didn't take away to many moral lessons like when I'm on mushrooms...

The diviner's sage is just a blast of minty bizarreness for me. Not bad, not good... just weird.

 

[eagleeyes]

i agree mushrooms teach more about where you are whereas salvia teaches i think more about who it is......it tells about its life as a plant with mantises crawling on it and what it went through trying to survive and being released and transformed via swims alchemical nexus with it and being thankful to have been finally released from its body as well.....i donno like i said it is interesting and different and has it's place like the rest of natures creations

 

[gibran2]

Salvia is very strange, but it’s easy for me to think of my salvia experiences as products of my mind (mostly). I generally don’t accept that what I’ve experienced is “real”, at least not in a direct way. Maybe there are “truths” revealed by salvia, but if so, they are expressed in a dreamy metaphorical language that is heavily influenced by my subconscious.

DMT is another story. There are dosage levels where it’s obvious that what I’m seeing is a product of my mind. But there are experiences where there’s a strange mix of content generated by both self and non-self. Less frequently, and typically at higher dosages, the reality of the immaterial realm becomes undeniably self-evident.

As I’ve said in previous posts, if someone doubts that DMT is capable of showing us a reality that is every bit as real as this one, then he has not yet had a “reality-confirming” experience. Once you’ve had such an experience, there is absolutely no doubt.

 

[DMTripper]

.....

DMT is another story. There are dosage levels where it’s obvious that what I’m seeing is a product of my mind. But there are experiences where there’s a strange mix of content generated by both self and non-self. Less frequently, and typically at higher dosages, the reality of the immaterial realm becomes undeniably self-evident.

As I’ve said in previous posts, if someone doubts that DMT is capable of showing us a reality that is every bit as real as this one, then he has not yet had a “reality-confirming” experience. Once you’ve had such an experience, there is absolutely no doubt.

I second that