How Does the Molecule Effect Your Use of the Molecule?

[Voidmatrix]

This is something I'm sure is different for everyone and I'm curious as to the dynamics for others.

I had planned to do a little changa ritual later, but have since changed my mind, opting for some rue tea and work on an extraction instead.

The way it feels, for me, this decision to forgo DMT today was influenced by past and recent DMT usage. It appears there's an adjunct algorithm to the normal processes of my intuition and this adjunct algorithm is programmed and reinforced by DMT use. It's helping me assess if it's "right" or not to journey.

A while ago, I was concerned about increasing my frequency with the worry/concern I may abuse the spice... said worry seems unnecessary, also reinforced by what felt like telepathic insight from hyperspace.

I'm aware that some do not experience this, but rather the very opposite.

How does it impact your decision making about doing DMT?

One love

 

[Tony6Strings]

Twas all fun and games until the first hyperslap. Now any random breakthrough has the potential to be terrifying.

However, there have also been the very positive, very enjoyable, life changing breakthrough experiences. Having one like this tends to make me excited about Smoalk Moar.

Picking up the pipe is never something I take lightly. Its not weed.

 

[Th3_tRuTh]

Excellent question... So my relationship with the molecule continues to evolve and grow and change. My "ritual" is very basic. I keep everything in a box full of crystals I have had my whole life and stone malas that my fiance and I used to keep on us at all times, layers of purple tissue and sage, whenever I begin to prepare, I simply place my hand over everything, give thanks, and essentially just sharing energy I guess, and then I load my dose while trying to keep my focus on the reason I am seeking experience. Once it is loaded, I try not to think too much and just "be with the sacrament" if that makes sense. I have grown to accept that I will never be able to predict the experience or even prepare for it really, so I like to keep my process simple, welcome whatever the medicine wants to show me, do a quick 4-7-8 breathwork, and start my inhale.

I have quickly changed my mind about journeys a few times since I started working with this stuff. It usually happens for no real discernable reason, just all of a sudden I feel like "nah, I'm good for today". I have also consciously avoided spice because I know where my head is at and sometimes the spectacle this medicine likes to make of my thoughts can be a little disturbing so I know when it's likely to be a twisted chaotic loop and usually just say no thank you. Sometimes I will go even if I have a feeling I'm not going to like what I see, but that's usually when I am feeling super triggered and am genuinely curious about how it will manifest in the trip. I see value in all experiences, so I do try not to reject the medicine, but I also know me enough to know when that kind of a trip may not be the best idea.

How I approach the experience changes with every experience.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thank you for your replies.

Twas all fun and games until the first hyperslap. Now any random breakthrough has the potential to be terrifying.

However, there have also been the very positive, very enjoyable, life changing breakthrough experiences. Having one like this tends to make me excited about Smoalk Moar.

Picking up the pipe is never something I take lightly. Its not weed.

I find for me too, regardless of my frequency of use, that it's never taken lightly. I am aware I need to be ready to do the work.

I haven't been hyperslapped in a very long time (only happened once), but I find trepidation about it occurring and not seeing it coming. I'm learning from the Spice to not worry so much about that.

I've adopted the "SMOALK MOAR" motto lol.

Excellent question... So my relationship with the molecule continues to evolve and grow and change. My "ritual" is very basic. I keep everything in a box full of crystals I have had my whole life and stone malas that my fiance and I used to keep on us at all times, layers of purple tissue and sage, whenever I begin to prepare, I simply place my hand over everything, give thanks, and essentially just sharing energy I guess, and then I load my dose while trying to keep my focus on the reason I am seeking experience. Once it is loaded, I try not to think too much and just "be with the sacrament" if that makes sense. I have grown to accept that I will never be able to predict the experience or even prepare for it really, so I like to keep my process simple, welcome whatever the medicine wants to show me, do a quick 4-7-8 breathwork, and start my inhale.

I have quickly changed my mind about journeys a few times since I started working with this stuff. It usually happens for no real discernable reason, just all of a sudden I feel like "nah, I'm good for today". I have also consciously avoided spice because I know where my head is at and sometimes the spectacle this medicine likes to make of my thoughts can be a little disturbing so I know when it's likely to be a twisted chaotic loop and usually just say no thank you. Sometimes I will go even if I have a feeling I'm not going to like what I see, but that's usually when I am feeling super triggered and am genuinely curious about how it will manifest in the trip. I see value in all experiences, so I do try not to reject the medicine, but I also know me enough to know when that kind of a trip may not be the best idea.

How I approach the experience changes with every experience.

It changes for me too but always revolves around a feedback on the Spice with itself. It's effects are nested within itself which then influences my interaction with it.

The decision to forgo is usually never quick for me, but I always feel good about the decision. I want to be close to the Spice, but not needy or dependent and being able to change my mind is evidence that I'm not.

Thanks again guys.

One love

 

[Bisy]

Cool thread, I don't have much Of a response to the question, but the word hyperslap has been used by enough of us to justify comparing that experience. In fact, I guess I do have an answer. Twas all fun and games till the first hyperslap.

My hyperslap experience came after several warnings and a couple not so pleasant trips. It was like the moment I broke through, there was an angry entity right in my face like projectile vomiting what felt like fiberglass shards penetrating my face. I squeezed my eyes and mouth shut but it didn't stop the sensations. It didn't last long, but it's not something I want to repeat.

 

[Seeingisbelieving]

Smoking lower doses pretty much eliminates the possibility of a bad trip for me.
I totally understand what you mean if you are second guessing your decisions and intentions.
Are you still using the substance to navigate your depression? I use the substance as I feel the need and that is usually only once a month.(sometimes two times I try to smoke up the day before a therapy session. It helps me for sure.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Smoking lower doses pretty much eliminates the possibility of a bad trip for me.
I totally understand what you mean if you are second guessing your decisions and intentions.
Are you still using the substance to navigate your depression? I use the substance as I feel the need and that is usually only once a month.(sometimes two times I try to smoke up the day before a therapy session. It helps me for sure.

I definitely understand that and feel it's generally the same for me.

I find this augmentation comes about for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's like you said with second guessing decision and intention, but also integration, autonomy, and perseverance are reasons that come up. Sometimes more processing of a prior experience is necessary. Sometimes it's felt to push through on my own and manage my situation independently. I do find that there are times that a reconsideration comes about for an unidentified reason. It's a very intuitive feeling.

I am still using it to navigate my depression and it's been helping tremendously with this time of year for me (reverse seasonal effective disorder). It's really been beautiful all around growing closer to the spice through its positive impact in my daily life.

It seems like a pretty good call. I can see how low dose DMT before therapy can add to the therapeutic benefits of the session. Something I wish I would've thought of when I was in therapy.



One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

Cool thread, I don't have much Of a response to the question, but the word hyperslap has been used by enough of us to justify comparing that experience. In fact, I guess I do have an answer. Twas all fun and games till the first hyperslap.

My hyperslap experience came after several warnings and a couple not so pleasant trips. It was like the moment I broke through, there was an angry entity right in my face like projectile vomiting what felt like fiberglass shards penetrating my face. I squeezed my eyes and mouth shut but it didn't stop the sensations. It didn't last long, but it's not something I want to repeat.

I feel like we should coin "it was all fun and games until my first hyperslap."

The hyperslap is rough, but definitely serves a purpose as we can all attest to. Do you feel your hyperslap influenced your future decision making in doing spice? And how so?

One love

 

[Bisy]

maybe we should differentiate between a bad trip, and an unpleasant one, because as many have already pointed out, it is kinda unjust to call them bad.. in fact, they may often be the more significant ones. this may prove to be more true as we learn more about the meaning of our trips..

as for using it for depression, i hadnt even thought about that, it has been so many decades since i felt as good as i am recently that i didnt even think i was depressed. just lazy. but now that ive been reminded what its like to feel the way i do now, i was just doing a good job of putting on a fake smile and saying "im good thanks, how are you?" and believing it because ive felt worse at times.

 

[Voidmatrix]

maybe we should differentiate between a bad trip, and an unpleasant one, because as many have already pointed out, it is kinda unjust to call them bad.. in fact, they may often be the more significant ones. this may prove to be more true as we learn more about the meaning of our trips..

as for using it for depression, i hadnt even thought about that, it has been so many decades since i felt as good as i am recently that i didnt even think i was depressed. just lazy. but now that ive been reminded what its like to feel the way i do now, i was just doing a good job of putting on a fake smile and saying "im good thanks, how are you?" and believing it because ive felt worse at times.

You shed light on a very great point. I don't think I've ever actually said that I've had a bad trip. It may have been hard, tough, rough, outside my preference, terrifying, but never bad as there's always something of value to take away.

I like to use the analogy of fight training. The training sessions where one gets rocked the most are usually the ones that generate the most growth, though no one likes getting rocked.

From some of your recent posts, you haven't sounded too lazy lol.

I find that depression itself and all that comes with it can be hard to identify seeing as it imbeds itself within our minds. It can be hard to find the distinctions that highlight depression.

I would like to give a caveat. While I personally find DMT helpful in managing my depression, it should be noted that psychedelics can bring about dormant mental health issues, so one should be cautious if they have any psychiatric diagnoses.

One love

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I find that depression itself and all that comes with it can be hard to identify seeing as it imbeds itself within our minds. It can be hard to find the distinctions that highlight depression.

Depression is quite a conglomerate of emotions and thoughts. With current psychiatric paradigm we only see a problem that you need to get rid of.

However, people who go through depressive episodes in their lives, or even constantly struggle with low energy and low mood, often gain perspective and empathy through their own suffering. What we name depression may be a big opportunity for spiritual growth.

Medieval mystic St. John of the Cross wrote about the concept of Dark night of the soul which I believe is related to this. When life treats you in a way that you are not able to live up your previous ambitions and dreams you are forced to look inside. Not everyone comes back, but those who do often have perspectives and attitudes that don't develop without first having to go through personal struggles.

 

[Bisy]

some interesting perspectives on depression, ill add one that is new to me as a result of all that ive recently experienced..

nobody likes to admit to being depressed, to themselves more than others prolly. and a day or two or even a week of melancholy is not depression. so it comes on slow and stealthily, giving you time to find all sorts of excuses for the decline in ambition and mood.. ultimately leaving you unaware that you are functioning far below your potential.. at some point, you begin to become aware that youre just idling, and start to push yourself to perform better. you become more productive, which in itself feels good, so you then use that change to tell yourself that youre doing better. but youre really not, youre just being more productive, which feels a little better.. but at the same time is causing you to believe that being productive solves your problem and also that you are finally back to achieving your potential..

what im experiencing is something VERY different. im not making effort to get up and stay busy so that so much gets accomplished this day. i dont have a list of things to do. and i dont get discouraged if i have to do something twice. (rare occurence)

its not just my productivity either.. my childrens mother is a sociopath, literally. (she isnt diagnosed, but ive spent many years learning this, and i am 100% sure of this) anyone remotely familiar with what this means knows what it does to the minds of their loved ones..sometimes forever damaged.. so dealing with her has always been challenging.. im suddenly and totally over it, above it, and unaffected by it..

theres so much more too....

its amazing.. the only thing that comes to mind as concerning is the possibility of this being something like the high you get from the first few experiences with some drugs, before they turn on you and kick your ass to the dirt.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I find that depression itself and all that comes with it can be hard to identify seeing as it imbeds itself within our minds. It can be hard to find the distinctions that highlight depression.

Depression is quite a conglomerate of emotions and thoughts. With current psychiatric paradigm we only see a problem that you need to get rid of.

However, people who go through depressive episodes in their lives, or even constantly struggle with low energy and low mood, often gain perspective and empathy through their own suffering. What we name depression may be a big opportunity for spiritual growth.

Medieval mystic St. John of the Cross wrote about the concept of Dark night of the soul which I believe is related to this. When life treats you in a way that you are not able to live up your previous ambitions and dreams you are forced to look inside. Not everyone comes back, but those who do often have perspectives and attitudes that don't develop without first having to go through personal struggles.

Well said. In regards to the comment about psychiatry and depression being a problem to be solved, I personally feel (as my old therapist helped me understand) that it's better to learn to manage it. Granted, I do have persistent depression, which for the small number of people who have, can be life long. As

I don't really fight my depression anymore (like when I tried to "cure" it or had expectations for such), but rather inversely manipulate it. Having depression has taught me a great deal, that may not be aware of if I didn't deal with it. As Tomtegubbe said, I have gained perspective, understanding, and empathy not only for myself but for others as well.

St. John of the Cross had some resonance with this in the above shared. While it's not only about prior ambitions and dreams for me, there still exists the impetus to look inward, to walk the path, and to grow with perseverance and resilience.

some interesting perspectives on depression, ill add one that is new to me as a result of all that ive recently experienced..

nobody likes to admit to being depressed, to themselves more than others prolly. and a day or two or even a week of melancholy is not depression. so it comes on slow and stealthily, giving you time to find all sorts of excuses for the decline in ambition and mood.. ultimately leaving you unaware that you are functioning far below your potential.. at some point, you begin to become aware that youre just idling, and start to push yourself to perform better. you become more productive, which in itself feels good, so you then use that change to tell yourself that youre doing better. but youre really not, youre just being more productive, which feels a little better.. but at the same time is causing you to believe that being productive solves your problem and also that you are finally back to achieving your potential..

what im experiencing is something VERY different. im not making effort to get up and stay busy so that so much gets accomplished this day. i dont have a list of things to do. and i dont get discouraged if i have to do something twice. (rare occurence)

its not just my productivity either.. my childrens mother is a sociopath, literally. (she isnt diagnosed, but ive spent many years learning this, and i am 100% sure of this) anyone remotely familiar with what this means knows what it does to the minds of their loved ones..sometimes forever damaged.. so dealing with her has always been challenging.. im suddenly and totally over it, above it, and unaffected by it..

theres so much more too....

its amazing.. the only thing that comes to mind as concerning is the possibility of this being something like the high you get from the first few experiences with some drugs, before they turn on you and kick your ass to the dirt.

Depression is indeed sneaky. And I identify with the rationalization effect that comes with depression, where one finds inaccurate justifications for what they're dealing with outside of saying that it's depression. I've had to really soul search to find out what I really think and feel about various things versus depression's intrusive thoughts and feelings. This time of year is a good example. I love a beautiful sunshine day, but it can be hard to embrace because of my situation and an invasion of feelings that aren't mine, though I feel them. I'm not always in control of its effects, but I am in control in recognition of the source and that it is not me.

Your example with productivity is an insightful example of the internal delusions and manipulations that can occur. This one specifically has (and still sometimes does) happen to me. I have come to recognize it for what it is and do my best to make it work to my advantage instead of against me.

Spice has yet to turn on me. But your concern applies to my past cocaine use lol! I'm not sure if it's my perspective(s) of DMT, the relationship I'm building with it, or something else, but it's only been a helpful tool.

I would like to clarify, I don't run to the Spice when I'm in a deeper sense of depression or whatnot. The Spice has taught me not to, and to be sure try to persevere on my own (this could be related to my neurosis about attachment lol) I had DMT experiences yesterday and the day before. Today was a harder day for me, but I'm not going to blast off. I'm going to use past experiences to propel me forward into making it through on my own. This is how I'd like it to be until the Spice and I grow closet to each other.



One love

 

[Bisy]

im not reccomending anyone try this, and i cant be sure that its accurate, but if it is in fact the dmt that has turned my life around, it has been because of the extremely excessive use of it..

but i do feel like its quite possible. like maybe the journeys to hyperspace, and whatever it does to hormone production, or synapsis responses or whatever regulates our moods, could be seperated and one or the other could be considered a side effect.

its very curious to me, thats what peaked my intrest on the continuous iv experiments, because thats the most likely way that my hypothesis about massive amounts being so effective will be discovered. i dont see the experimental medicine sector jumping into massive and frequent dosages really quickly..lol

we have all experienced the mild and temporary mood lifting effects of moderate use. im kinda thinking that the extreme nature of what im experiencing has some correlation to the extreme nature of administration. nothing but a hunch though.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

what im experiencing is something VERY different. im not making effort to get up and stay busy so that so much gets accomplished this day. i dont have a list of things to do. and i dont get discouraged if i have to do something twice. (rare occurence)

Well put!

One major feature of depression is the restless that comes with it. The constant feeling that you should be doing more.

In regards to the comment about psychiatry and depression being a problem to be solved, I personally feel (as my old therapist helped me understand) that it's better to learn to manage it. Granted, I do have persistent depression, which for the small number of people who have, can be life long. As

I don't really fight my depression anymore (like when I tried to "cure" it or had expectations for such), but rather inversely manipulate it.

This is very very important!

Jung talks about integrating the shadow aspects of personality. Even though depression is something most people would just like to get rid of, it may be better path to face whatever is lurking in the shadows and get in terms with it.

 

[Voidmatrix]

what im experiencing is something VERY different. im not making effort to get up and stay busy so that so much gets accomplished this day. i dont have a list of things to do. and i dont get discouraged if i have to do something twice. (rare occurence)

Well put!

One major feature of depression is the restless that comes with it. The constant feeling that you should be doing more.

In regards to the comment about psychiatry and depression being a problem to be solved, I personally feel (as my old therapist helped me understand) that it's better to learn to manage it. Granted, I do have persistent depression, which for the small number of people who have, can be life long. As

I don't really fight my depression anymore (like when I tried to "cure" it or had expectations for such), but rather inversely manipulate it.

This is very very important!

Jung talks about integrating the shadow aspects of personality. Even though depression is something most people would just like to get rid of, it may be better path to face whatever is lurking in the shadows and get in terms with it.

Finding that fine line in productivity is difficult and neurosis producing. It's a very incessant feeling that makes it hard to make distinctions in what I really want to do versus what my depression tricks me into thinking I need or want to do.

but i do feel like its quite possible. like maybe the journeys to hyperspace, and whatever it does to hormone production, or synapsis responses or whatever regulates our moods, could be seperated and one or the other could be considered a side effect.

its very curious to me, thats what peaked my intrest on the continuous iv experiments, because thats the most likely way that my hypothesis about massive amounts being so effective will be discovered. i dont see the experimental medicine sector jumping into massive and frequent dosages really quickly..lol

we have all experienced the mild and temporary mood lifting effects of moderate use. im kinda thinking that the extreme nature of what im experiencing has some correlation to the extreme nature of administration. nothing but a hunch though.

Considering the effects of neurogenesis due to psychedelics, and coupled with exploratory introspection (and brutal honesty), I find low to moderate dosing relatively regularly drives more preferred thinking patterns and behavior. It's partly an exercise in developing new neurological pathways..

One love

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Regarding psychedelics and mental health, I believe psychedelics have very much taken away my cynicism. I know there's still a lot of work to do with myself, but I know I can mature and change my ways. If I get stuck, I know I can seek perspective from the sacred brews.

Before I was introduced to psychedelics (or began serious use of them), I had the feeling that nothing really helps. Alcohol was perfect match for that sentiment. If nothing makes a difference, why not just stay drunk.

DMT and psilocybin have opened up a different way of reasoning. Yes, life is painful at times, but if you go towards that pain, you have an opportunity to grow.

 

[King Tryptamine]

It's self-regulating for me personally so abusing DMT is something I'm not too concerned with given this nature, unlike other drugs (e.g. THC and caffeine) it's not as important to regulate since the more I do it the less I want to take and therefore the more aversive the compound becomes with time.

This I feel could also be said for all serotonergic psychedelics, especially compounds like LSD, mescaline or psilocybin which produce a substantial amount of tolerance per dose making it even harder for someone to abuse. Another factor which also plays a role in the compounds self-regulatory nature is that it doesn't produce any rebound effects upon cessation, therefor an individual is not at all likely to keep taking the psychedelic drug in order to offset withdrawal, of which there is none of.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Regarding psychedelics and mental health, I believe psychedelics have very much taken away my cynicism. I know there's still a lot of work to do with myself, but I know I can mature and change my ways. If I get stuck, I know I can seek perspective from the sacred brews.

Before I was introduced to psychedelics (or began serious use of them), I had the feeling that nothing really helps. Alcohol was perfect match for that sentiment. If nothing makes a difference, why not just stay drunk.

DMT and psilocybin have opened up a different way of reasoning. Yes, life is painful at times, but if you go towards that pain, you have an opportunity to grow.

That was really beautiful Tomtegubbe. I hope others can find hope and be motivated by posts like that. We can all change. And change is constant, so we're going to even if we don't want to.

There are various individuals, very close and dear to me, that have the tentacles of alcohol surrounding them. They're tough to break, seeing as I find many of these individuals strong of character. A terrible affliction. My heart goes out to all that encounter it. I think that psychedelics, used in a therapeutic and non-escapist manner can help a great many individuals struggling with alcohol.

I think that's why those are both of my go to entheogens as well. I can't help but engage with trials of life, learning, understanding and growing with the utility of them. Something I've been actively engaging with these tools is my struggles with doing what I would like and what would please me. I've spent a great deal of my life depriving myself for various reasons. I would like to do psychedelics, but needlessly feel guilty. From my increased dedication and devotion to these experiences I'm understanding more and more it's an ingrained thought pattern that has been built up by long-standing habituation. I'm now working to "break/augment" these mental habits.

It's self-regulating for me personally so abusing DMT is something I'm not too concerned with given this nature, unlike other drugs (e.g. THC and caffeine) it's not as important to regulate since the more I do it the less I want to take and therefore the more aversive the compound becomes with time.

This I feel could also be said for all serotonergic psychedelics, especially compounds like LSD, mescaline or psilocybin which produce a substantial amount of tolerance per dose making it even harder for someone to abuse. Another factor which also plays a role in the compounds self-regulatory nature is that it doesn't produce any rebound effects upon cessation, therefor an individual is not at all likely to keep taking the psychedelic drug in order to offset withdrawal, of which there is none of.

Great points, and many things that I am trying to keep in perspective as I build this relationship with Spice.

I find your position interesting about other psychedelics, since I know my fair share of individuals that have definitely eaten too much LSD in their time. That's not to say I don't understand relative to psilocybin. Still a good point laid out overall.

One love

 

[rootBarkEnthusiast]

I agree that it is very self regulating. At the end of my "honeymoon", Some of the entities we're giving me a hint that I need to go focus on other stuff for a bit. I ignored this at first because I figured, a friend of mine can smoke spice pretty regularly, and I haven't used as much as him, so I'm good to keep going. This was obviously the wrong choice as I got locked out a few days after being told that I don't need any more hyperspace.

What I took away is that you gotta take it seriously or it won't continue to show you things. I'm sure it has happened, but I can't imagine someone getting "addicted" to spice since irresponsible use is going to get you a hyperslap or a lockout.