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How is this even possible? (powdered alcohol)

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N

nexusdisciple

Rising Star
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, I wasn't quite sure where to put it but I would love to understand the chemistry of how this works...

Today I heard about a product called Palcohol. Basically it is a powdered version of alcohol, you simply add water, mix it up, and you then have rum or vodka depending on what "flavor" you purchased.

Now, as someone who has spent many hours of my life evaporating various forms of alcohol, I know that ethanol evaporates cleanly. High proof alcohol won't even turn solid in a home freezer. So how is it possible to make a solidified form of alcohol?

On the site it says that the product is patent pending and if they told you the process of how it was made they would have to shoot you, so I got no help there.

Does anyone have any idea how this could possibly be made? I'm not particularly interested in the product itself, but I am very curious chemistry wise how someone could crystallize alcohol and then keep it stable at room temperature. The first thing that came to mind was that the site might be disingenuous and be the product is actually something else that is able to mimic ethanol but is actually a different substance.

I'd love any opinions or ideas about this. I know it isn't DMT related but it has me genuinely intrigued.
 
Microscopic droplets of ethanol suspended in some sort of solid additive was my guess. If I'm understanding d*l*b's link correctly, I guessed right! ;)
 
Does anyone else get a bad vibe from this product? I can see a product like this being approved by the FDA causing a lot of havoc at sports venues and schools (and other venue which may not allow the consumption of alcohol).
I have read that this 'Palcohol' can be snorted.
What about drink spiking? Discreet boosting of alcohol content to unsuspecting people. "I didn't spike her drink, she was just blackout drunk..."

I really dislike where this is going. What are the implications of this on society?

:thumb_dow
 
Geebus123 said:
Does anyone else get a bad vibe from this product? I can see a product like this being approved by the FDA causing a lot of havoc at sports venues and schools (and other venue which may not allow the consumption of alcohol).
I have read that this 'Palcohol' can be snorted.
What about drink spiking? Discreet boosting of alcohol content to unsuspecting people. "I didn't spike her drink, she was just blackout drunk..."

I really dislike where this is going. What are the implications of this on society?

:thumb_dow
Click to expand...
I imagine this stuff will likely get banned pretty quickly. Judging by the manner in which many people abuse regular alcohol, I would bet people are going to go nuts with this stuff.

The website explicitly states that yes, it could be snorted and it would work too. But the product is made at such a low concentration that one would have to snort a TON of powder in order to feel any effect. The company seems to be planning to add bulking agents for exactly this reason. Personally, I'll be more interested to see the reports that start popping up once people start trying to plug this stuff... :?
 
Entheogenerator said:
Geebus123 said:
Does anyone else get a bad vibe from this product? I can see a product like this being approved by the FDA causing a lot of havoc at sports venues and schools (and other venue which may not allow the consumption of alcohol).
I have read that this 'Palcohol' can be snorted.
What about drink spiking? Discreet boosting of alcohol content to unsuspecting people. "I didn't spike her drink, she was just blackout drunk..."

I really dislike where this is going. What are the implications of this on society?

:thumb_dow
Click to expand...
I imagine this stuff will likely get banned pretty quickly. Judging by the manner in which many people abuse regular alcohol, I would bet people are going to go nuts with this stuff.

The website explicitly states that yes, it could be snorted and it would work too. But the product is made at such a low concentration that one would have to snort a TON of powder in order to feel any effect. The company seems to be planning to add bulking agents for exactly this reason. Personally, I'll be more interested to see the reports that start popping up once people start trying to plug this stuff... :?
Click to expand...

I can't believe a company would support that method of ingestion. Rather reckless really...
In regards to plugging or even snorting of this form of alcohol, I'm also interested to know if thee alternative methods of ingestion would perhaps bypass an alcohol breathalyzer test?
This would have even more dangerous consequences and could potentially ruin many lives on the road.

I really do pray it is banned quickly.
 
Geebus123 said:
I'm also interested to know if thee alternative methods of ingestion would perhaps bypass an alcohol breathalyzer test?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure those breathalyzer tests are based on blood alcohol content, so no matter which way it goes in, it should come out your breath much the same I imagine. Less people would probably smell it on your breath though.
 
Geebus123 said:
I can't believe a company would support that method of ingestion. Rather reckless really...
Click to expand...
I don’t think they support it, it is simply noted that it is possible.

Palcohol website said:
11. Can I snort it? We have seen comments about goofballs wanting to snort it. Don't do it! It is not a responsible or smart way to use the product. To take precautions against this action, we've added volume to the powder so it would take more than a half of a cup of powder to get the equivalent of one drink up your nose. You would feel a lot of pain for very little gain. Just use it the right way.
Click to expand...

Geebus123 said:
I really do pray it is banned quickly.
Click to expand...
Banning helps nothing, it will still exist, banned or not. Now that it has been thoroughly advertised through mainstream news/social media I guess the idea is well implanted in a variety of people’s minds so it will get out there somehow.

Similar products have supposedly existed via other manufacturers since 2007. They don’t seem to be very easy to source if they still [have ever?] exist on the open market though.
 
This idea of powdering alcohol seems unnecessary and probably will have some devastating outcomes. Bottled alcohol already exists anyways and is dangerous by itself. Further results may indicate that it can be used with more than just alcohol, being an open source molecule.

This is the realm of supramolecular chemistry that deals with collections of molecules, and it’s a form of nanotechnology."
Click to expand...

Powdered Alcohol: Better Drinking Through Chemistry
 
Alcohol poweder has been on the market for at least 10 years (in europe) and it never gained acceptance. A while back, they even installed alcohol vapor inhalers in british pubs. I don't know, folks just love their beer.

Novel ways of administring drugs will always exist, but most will stay novel because it can be hard/take a long time for a culture to build around it.

BRB filling my enema with ayahuasca...:lol:
 
Enemahuasca? Nice!

Has anyone here tasted this stuff? I wonder what happens when you put it in your mouth. Can you taste the ethanol or is it masked?

I am invisioning a gastronomy restaurant that doesn't serve alcoholic drinks but incorporates a standardized dose to course ratio into their weird food and you get wasted as you work your way to dessert.

Sounds like fun for Burning Man.
 
Sounds like fun
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I hear you. To be honest,i find that alcohol bashing a bit weird. Like some sort of weird jealousy that it is legal. Or anger because it is hypocritical to allow alcohol and make other drugs illegal. I do think alcohol is massivly overrated, but it always kind of depends on the context.

Why not just have a nice, cold beer and chill out. Or do it Traveler Style, with a quarter tab LSD. Highly recommended. :thumb_up:
 
obliguhl said:
Sounds like fun
Click to expand...

I hear you. To be honest,i find that alcohol bashing a bit weird. Like some sort of weird jealousy that it is legal. Or anger because it is hypocritical to allow alcohol and make other drugs illegal. I do think alcohol is massivly overrated, but it always kind of depends on the context.

Why not just have a nice, cold beer and chill out. Or do it Traveler Style, with a quarter tab LSD. Highly recommended. :thumb_up:
Click to expand...
I hope my post wan't misinterpreted as "alcohol bashing"... I have no problem with people using alcohol, I use it myself in low doses on occasion. I just think that a lot of people in western societies hold this belief that alcohol is much less dangerous than it really is, and much less dangerous than illegal drugs, partly because it is legal. I see a lot of people using alcohol in a dangerous and irresponsible manner, and I think this product could make it much easier for those people to do so.
 
It is already incredibly easy to damage yourself with alcohol. You don't want the taste? No problem, just mix it with juice, soda etc. I sometimes overhear 12-14y old girls pondering the art of masking the taste of hard liquor. Hard to stomach that most of them will be without guidance in this and i believe you don't have to get hammered at age 12. But then, everyone wants to be social, without fear and inhibition, getting with the attractive sex and so forth. You'll never be able to ban that.

Better to educate more and provide support.

Also....ayahuasca pancakes ...
 
Popular Sciene posted a "how-to" if anyone is interested in researching this for themselves.

The only way to make unadulterated alcohol into a powder would be to freeze it solid. The temperature required to do that would destroy your tongue when you ate it though, not to mention certain other logistical concerns. The trick, therefore, is to start with a highly sorbent powder as a base, and add alcohol to it -- just enough so that the alcohol is fully soaked up, but the powder remains powdery.

The best easily obtainable powder I've found for this purpose is a specially modified starch, a maltodextrin made from tapioca and sold under the name N-Zorbit M. Each granule of this light, fluffy starch has a micro-fuzzy texture that gives it a great deal of surface area so it adsorbs liquids very well. It's popularly used in high-tech cooking to soak up fats, for instance in the "olive oil powder" recipe that appears in Modernist Cuisine. But it can also soak up alcohol pretty well.

It used to be hard to find in reasonable quantities for home use, but now you can buy it affordably from suppliers like Modernist Pantry or WillPowder. There's plenty of other maltodextrin out there, but those won't work for this purpose -- N-Zorbit is the one you want. (Other starch derivatives, such as cyclodextrins, would probably be even better for this task than maltodextrin, but those aren't as easy to find. Yet.)

1. Weigh out 100 grams of N-Zorbit into a mixing bowl. Because the powder is so fluffy and light, this will be a sizeable mound.

2. While whisking steadily, drizzle in 30 grams of high-proof spirit. I use Lemon Hart 151-proof rum. After you've stirred it in completely, the powder should be dry, but somewhat chunky. If it's still moist, sprinkle in a little more N-Zorbit.

3. Sift the dry liquor through a fine sieve to break up the chunks and make a nice powder. If you're making a larger batch, you can do it in a blender and step 3 won't be necessary.

Voila! You've got powdered booze. You can stir it into water or another mixer to taste, to make a delicious sippable; sprinkle it on food (rum powder is great on desserts); or just lick a little bit of powder off your finger for the novelty. Be careful: it's highly flammable! Don't get it anywhere near a flame.

You may be able to use a lower-proof spirit, but that will require significantly more N-Zorbit to soak it up. And the more powder you add, the more weakly the flavor of the spirit will come through. On the other hand, if you have access to 190-proof neutral grain spirit, you can make a very strong powdered booze indeed.

I don't know if this is similar to Palcohol's secret method, which (according to the leaked label above) has close to a 1:1 ratio of alcohol to non-alcohol content by weight. But I look forward to trying their product when it's ready!
Click to expand...
 
Global said:
Geebus123 said:
I'm also interested to know if thee alternative methods of ingestion would perhaps bypass an alcohol breathalyzer test?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure those breathalyzer tests are based on blood alcohol content, so no matter which way it goes in, it should come out your breath much the same I imagine. Less people would probably smell it on your breath though.
Click to expand...

Yes that makes sense now that I think about it a bit more. Thanks for your thoughts. :)
 
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