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What social mammal lacks the same flaws that we face?

Dogma or not.

Take dogs for example, packs exterminate and fight other packs, they fight for territory, for food. They fight for sex etc. some kill for fun.

Some groups of chimps engage in what is very analogous to warfare, entering into the territory of others and killing them. That is not unlike the crusades.

So while we humans can blame or excuse dogma and belief systems, the fact that our behavior is analogous to dogs who do not have those belief systems leads me to believe that we are often missing the point of the problem, which is our nature itself.

I disagree with some notions here, for example I think to point out that gods exist that do not reach our own standards of ethics, in terms of the scripture claims of many religions, is not to attack such gods. Gods are credited with rape, for example, the Hellenic theology has this in spades, so to speak, but if you say that a god raped someone and that indicates they are not up to human standards of ethics, is that to slander the god? To me it is to point out a fact, like saying the sky is blue.
Now if someone believes the sky is some other color, they might indeed take that as a personal attack against the sky, but is it truly reasonable to infer this as an attack or rather is such an inferance merely a symptom of our natures which I have already addressed?

I find human reasoning extremely flawed, my own included. I find our minds to be very limited in their abilities, my own included. Language I feel hinders the mind due to the artifacts it creates in terms of logical sequence, but that is a whole other topic.

We cannot overcome, as a species, our natures. I don't blame the crusaders for the crusades anymore than I blame a wolf pack for trying to kill another wolf pack. I blame the beliefs of the wolves as much as I do the beliefs of the humans.

Herodotus said that we generally belief in the systems of our fathers, exceptions are known, but they are still the exception, it comes down to things like peer pressure and social interaction, not belief systems, in my opinion.

However I am not very bright and have my own flawed human nature so take this as the opinion of a fool.

<blockquote data-quote="AlbertKLloyd" data-source="post: 3604626" data-attributes="member: 1716">What social mammal lacks the same flaws that we face?Dogma or not. Take dogs for example, packs exterminate and fight other packs, they fight for territory, for food. They fight for sex etc. some kill for fun. Some groups of chimps engage in what is very analogous to warfare, entering into the territory of others and killing them. That is not unlike the crusades. So while we humans can blame or excuse dogma and belief systems, the fact that our behavior is analogous to dogs who do not have those belief systems leads me to believe that we are often missing the point of the problem, which is our nature itself. I disagree with some notions here, for example I think to point out that gods exist that do not reach our own standards of ethics, in terms of the scripture claims of many religions, is not to attack such gods. Gods are credited with rape, for example, the Hellenic theology has this in spades, so to speak, but if you say that a god raped someone and that indicates they are not up to human standards of ethics, is that to slander the god? To me it is to point out a fact, like saying the sky is blue. Now if someone believes the sky is some other color, they might indeed take that as a personal attack against the sky, but is it truly reasonable to infer this as an attack or rather is such an inferance merely a symptom of our natures which I have already addressed?I find human reasoning extremely flawed, my own included. I find our minds to be very limited in their abilities, my own included. Language I feel hinders the mind due to the artifacts it creates in terms of logical sequence, but that is a whole other topic. We cannot overcome, as a species, our natures. I don&#039;t blame the crusaders for the crusades anymore than I blame a wolf pack for trying to kill another wolf pack. I blame the beliefs of the wolves as much as I do the beliefs of the humans. Herodotus said that we generally belief in the systems of our fathers, exceptions are known, but they are still the exception, it comes down to things like peer pressure and social interaction, not belief systems, in my opinion. However I am not very bright and have my own flawed human nature so take this as the opinion of a fool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AlbertKLloyd, post: 3604626, member: 1716"] What social mammal lacks the same flaws that we face? Dogma or not. Take dogs for example, packs exterminate and fight other packs, they fight for territory, for food. They fight for sex etc. some kill for fun. Some groups of chimps engage in what is very analogous to warfare, entering into the territory of others and killing them. That is not unlike the crusades. So while we humans can blame or excuse dogma and belief systems, the fact that our behavior is analogous to dogs who do not have those belief systems leads me to believe that we are often missing the point of the problem, which is our nature itself. I disagree with some notions here, for example I think to point out that gods exist that do not reach our own standards of ethics, in terms of the scripture claims of many religions, is not to attack such gods. Gods are credited with rape, for example, the Hellenic theology has this in spades, so to speak, but if you say that a god raped someone and that indicates they are not up to human standards of ethics, is that to slander the god? To me it is to point out a fact, like saying the sky is blue. Now if someone believes the sky is some other color, they might indeed take that as a personal attack against the sky, but is it truly reasonable to infer this as an attack or rather is such an inferance merely a symptom of our natures which I have already addressed? I find human reasoning extremely flawed, my own included. I find our minds to be very limited in their abilities, my own included. Language I feel hinders the mind due to the artifacts it creates in terms of logical sequence, but that is a whole other topic. We cannot overcome, as a species, our natures. I don't blame the crusaders for the crusades anymore than I blame a wolf pack for trying to kill another wolf pack. I blame the beliefs of the wolves as much as I do the beliefs of the humans. Herodotus said that we generally belief in the systems of our fathers, exceptions are known, but they are still the exception, it comes down to things like peer pressure and social interaction, not belief systems, in my opinion. However I am not very bright and have my own flawed human nature so take this as the opinion of a fool. [/QUOTE]