How would you like to see DMT legalized?

[FlagellaStink]

(a US-specific rant)

With the path that MDMA and psilocybin are on, it seems a pretty imminent question of what the psychedelic space will look like once these things have been approved and, hopefully, legalized. But, in the case of DMT, its path doesn't seem as rigidly set to me as the therapeutic paths of these other substances. Really, the popular academic studies with DMT are the rare psychedelic exception of having no association with therapy at all - notable ones being Rick Strassman's study, extended state with Imperial College London, etc. Honestly, I really attribute this with Michael Pollan's book, which I think has easily created the biggest change in public perception of psychedelics in recent history. The fact that his book didn't really cover DMT, and the show didn't at all, is what I believe saved DMT from widespread perception as a new "psychotherapy drug" which the general public seems to have accepted as the future course for mushrooms and acid. This makes me curious what the legalization route will look like for DMT - if it will be the last train to arrive in the psychedelic therapy station, hitch-hike in some group rescheduling of all psychedelic substances, or be decriminalized for completely separate reasons.

Obviously, there's also been the question of if psychedelic legalization will be a good thing at all, with many being concerned that pharmaceutical companies, or more broadly, capitalism, will take advantage of this legalization. Practices like ketamine therapy are really, really expensive, and this will probably become the case with MDMA and mushrooms as well. There's also the alternative of psychedelics becoming legally available only through prescription, as with substances like amphetamines. Or, one can imagine a really weird future where they're treated like weed and sold in dispensaries, with big billboards advertising two-for-one LSD sheet deals. Or perhaps for some, decriminalization seems the best choice, as it stands in places like Denver and Oregon. For these substances, the immediate legal destination is probably confined to the medical field for now, but I don't think it's necessarily as likely with DMT. Yet no matter what the outcome is, there will be those who aren't satisfied with it, so I see it as this iffy subject that most haven't considered because we're so focused on reaching some sort of legalization at all.

Point being, with DMT having the cloudiest future of the main psychedelics, and with many being unhappy with their impending legalization (while still not wanting them to be illegal) - what is your ideal future for the state of DMT?

 

[Tryptamineenthusiast]

I think DMT should be fully legal in the US, I actually think its better if it isn't used for psychedelic therapy even if that means it getting legalized slower. Psychedelic therapy is great in theory, but once large amounts of money become a factor it feels pretty damn dystopian to me. That being said I don't want DMT to go down the path that salvia went down where people who do not respect it give it to their friends and end up having very bad expiriences. I hope that the inherant difficulty of consuming it will be enough to disuade that treatment of it but I fear it may not be with the rise of DMT vape products. I think in an ideal world it would be avaliable comercially and come with an information packet about safe/proper use and be restricted to persons 18+. As long as you are in a positive, relaxed state and willing to surrender DMT will treat you well, I think a simple infographic with little smiling people instructing you to breathe and relax and be positive before your expirience would be enough. I also think that growing source plants and making it yourself should be fully legal, this would likley be vastly cheaper than buying it, that way, hopefully, people would educate themselves more as they would have more of a personal connection with sourcing.

At the end of the day what I really want is a world where people can respect the compound and use it to self-treat mental illness, self-explore, and even just use recreationally. What I don't want is people getting arrested for DMT manufacture/use/distribution, at all, ever. I think widespread sociatal use of DMT can only be a positive, maybe I am too naiive, maybe too optimistic, but I feel like DMT regulates itself and could make this world a much more empathetic place.

That being said, I love the community we have here at the Nexus, if DMT was quietly decriminalized and we could all go on making/consuming it without the fear of being arrested that would not be a bad future either. I think the system we have now facilitates good use because of the minset we all have on this site--this site being the major information hub for the best way to obtain the compound in the first place: extraction. That being said I often wonder if that is more of a product of the people here or simply an inherant trait of the substance itself. This is what I mean when I say the substance almost regulates itself it a way, I often wonder wether we are a group of like-minded people who want to discuss DMT or if we are a group of like-minded people because of DMT. If the former is true then decriminalize; if the latter is true then legalize.

I think there is a concervative and safe option and a potentially incredible option. I think we are in desperate need of widespread empathy, because of the possibility that DMT can provide that I vote legalize.

Just my opinions, I would love to see other ideas as I am not nearly as well-informed on these matters as I know many of you are.

With love,

Tryptamine Enthusiast

 

[FlagellaStink]

Psychedelic therapy is great in theory, but once large amounts of money become a factor it feels pretty damn dystopian to me. That being said I don't want DMT to go down the path that salvia went down where people who do not respect it give it to their friends and end up having very bad expiriences.

Yeah, I agree that confining it to therapy as this "treatment for the rich and ONLY the rich" seems really dystopian and just doesn't solve the issue of providing a safe and legal way for the common person to explore this substance, but one of my fears about immediate legalization of DMT is the flood of people that (as in the case of salvia) will misuse it, have terrible experiences, and then collectively give it a bad wrap, making people question if it was right to legalize it in the first place. These substances are held to much much greater scrutiny than say, alcohol - so any deaths, any adverse effects, will be a big mark against it. Alcohol would crumble in an instant under any of the rigorous trials these substances need to undergo, but since they're schedule 1 drugs, anything that doesn't practically save the participant's life is just another reason to keep it illegal.

The option of decriminalization is appealing as well though, in that it maintains this more niche psychedelic community and still requires effort on your part to create or find DMT in order to partake as opposed to just walking into a store and buying it. I think there's something valuable in having to work for the experience, and it weeds out many of those who aren't educated or prepared enough, but I think it's too much of a gray area and will still lead to people searching for it in sketchy places and doing stupid things to obtain it, so I think a legal and regulated source would be the best option - that way people know what they're getting, have a clear advisory on how much they should be taking, and stops them from having to go through legal hoops. Education, regulation, and legalization could minimize so much of the harm that does result from DMT.

At the end of the day, I think people should be able to do what they want with their own minds. Maybe its my naivety as well, but I feel like despite what exploitation and bad publicity might come about once the psychedelic waters settle, it's without a doubt the right thing to do, and I absolutely believe in its power to make the world a better place. I'm just very curious (and trying to stay optimistic!) about how it will all pan out.

Thanks for the response!!

 

[brokedownpalace10]

One option is schedule 3 or so. Make psychedelics available to medical professionals, they've wanted that for decades.
Problem is, as has been pointed out, American capitalism.
Seeing what has happened to Marijuana legalization and adding the fact that companies can tweak molecules and patent them with crazy advertising and it could get bad.

Another option is completely decriminalizing but making sale illegal. Lot's of people make beer and wine and give it to friends. They could contaminate that, so it's "buyer beware" in that situation.
Problem with that is that you do want to make it available to responsible professionals. Responsible being the key.

When I was a teenager, I envisioned psychiatrists having availability to psychedelics and there also being "trip centers" where one could go to consume. There would be many and varied things to do and environments and medical professionals on hand for bad trips. With things being that loose, there would of course be diversion and an easily available black market. That black market would mostly have safe, well made, psychedelics and would be something people did at their own risk.

But yeah, nothing's free in the free world and nothing is above being exploited.

 

[FlagellaStink]

Seeing what has happened to Marijuana legalization and adding the fact that companies can tweak molecules and patent them with crazy advertising and it could get bad.

Another option is completely decriminalizing but making sale illegal. Lot's of people make beer and wine and give it to friends.

I found the trip centers idea really appealing as well - it really would be the ideal situation for a person to trip in, if it wasn't for the fact that those medical professionals are working a job, thus need to be paid, where one would need to stay for at least what, 8 hours? Half a day under medical supervision is not cheap.. I'm curious to see how insurance will play into psychedelic treatments. But with DMT, I think this model could actually work at a reasonable cost considering the duration and low maintenance (patient won't be rolling around, trying to jump out windows, struggling to find the bathroom, etc.)

But this model really falls apart for me when it comes to the rest of the psychedelic scene. When confined to supervised centers, the only way for other people to obtain psychedelics is through the black market, which doesn't solve the issue that a lack of legal regulation leads to a lot of ignorance, lacing, false advertisement, manufacturing busts, and otherwise just harmful yet avoidable things if we made them commercially available.

I get what you're saying with tweaking and patenting molecules - especially like with synthetic cannabinoids which can be pretty f'ing scary. But as long as these main psychedelics were legally available, then people wouldn't have to turn to obscure research chemicals to get a similar experience. And I think, as Alexander Shulgin showed, tweaking molecules and creating new analogs can be a pretty fascinating and fruitful investigation, so I think the ideal situation would be for all these ideas to coexist. We can have psychedelic centers, AND psychedelics could be comercially available, AND new drugs could be created and legally sold with proper education and regulation surrounding risk-free use.

I'm not a big fan of the buyer beware policy because I think it's the main issue we're trying to escape already with the black market. I think there's a lot of (justified) stigma around companies getting their hands on these - but if it means safe and pure compounds available to the masses, I think it would be for the better. But, we'll just have to see. I appreciate the input!

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'm a psychedelic guide and work for a center.

One of my biggest issues is how much it costs for people in need. Granted, new things always cost more so hopefully in the future it'll become more affordable for disadvantaged people that tend to need it more than those who can pay for it. However nothing is exempt from the influence and impact of inflation.

In Colorado, while it's legal under personal use, let's ask ourselves a question: being members of this particular forum, do we really feel that most people have the scruples to use these substances safely and responsibly? I'd say no. Unfortunately, most people (like all biological organisms) take the path of least resistance. Thought, thinking, and being with tough thoughts and emotions are things that people avoid (taking note of potential risks takes the fun out of things to a degree), and is path of resistance. There are already plenty of reports about people having a bad time, in one form or another, with mushrooms alone. People are not, possible don't want to, considering dosage, set, setting, etc. They're just going for it, and not everyone has the constitution for such things.

My other issue is that when it comes to legal status, most are only looking at physical safety. I can understand why since many drafting legislation probably haven't gone the distance to know what other concerns there may be. However, one can become traumatized from a psychedelic experience, among other unfavorable effects.

DORA is also trying to place weird restrictions that's making it hard for therapists to be able to facilitate these experiences.

As for DMT, I'm starting to wonder if we should err on the side of caution and at most decriminalize it. When things get popular, dumb things happen, and with the new wave of information being shared by famous individuals, people shed their own freewill and scruples, defaulting to the experience and say-so of a celebrity because they're a celebrity and they had good things to say.

This is an aside, but the wave of popularity both humors and vexes me at the same time. People do DMT a few times, may have a few other psychedelics under their belt, and suddenly become combative authorities on the topic.

One love