Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Reply to thread

Message

Kind of amazingly, I have to second AKL here. We often agree on parts of these debates, but here, I have to agree with everything he said.

Especially the shoutout to Mary Shelly & Philip K. Dick!

I also include apocrypha, Dead Sea Scrolls and even the Nag Hammadi stuff into the mix when I think about the Bible.

I also read the Torah in Hebrew. Even learned Qabbalah in its birthplace and worldwide center... the mystical village of Tzvat in the northern Galilee. While I would not say that this stuff is worthless, on the contrary it has some very powerful juice to it, I find it unsuited to our current hyperspeed times.

It is designed to hide and keep secrets by couching them in ingenious code in plain site... underneath the allegories, Sumerian creation myths, and histories of a very influential family. However, for the most part, these secrets are all out of the closet now anyway. You can find literally hundreds of books that will give you the straight dope on this stuff without having to wade through years of intensive study. Until very recently, you had to be 40 years old, a man, married, with children, and an observant Orthodox Jew to receive initiation into Qabbalah. This is not the case now, but it is still a path that is just too long to walk in our short attention span theater world.

Anyway, I am not sure about the actual existence of the various biblical characters. I am convinced many of them did exist in some form or another, though... Much of the historical parts of the Bible have been somewhat backed up by the archaeological record. Cities it mentioned that we thought were lost or never existed have largely been found now.

The point is that it generally doesn't matter... from a mystic's point of view anyway. Fundamentalists have a shit fit over this stuff, but I am more interested in the experiential aspects of it. I have no use for faith. I want to know... and even more than that, I want to live it.

I also don't see time as a linear thing. And I agree with you about creation in that something that always was, IS and always will be... something eternal and infinite, can have no beginning. This is the definition of an omnipresent deity. But, as much as I believe the Universe is one with, infused by, and created out of this eternal thing... my concept of G*d is also transcendent to the Universe we know, and thus I find origination and creation plausible in the sense that I originate and create dreamworlds dozens of times every night. The timelines within those dreams are not real, and there are historical aspects to them that are completely fabricated at the time of my creating them... but there is an ostensible beginning point from my perspective outside of the dream, and I am clearly the originator of many of the dream worlds I travel in.

Anyway, I am sure now we have some things to disagree upon... but I was surprised to find that we really agree on an awful lot.

Nice to see you Albert.

<blockquote data-quote="Hyperspace Fool" data-source="post: 3575338" data-attributes="member: 10791">Kind of amazingly, I have to second AKL here.&nbsp; We often agree on parts of these debates, but here, I have to agree with everything he said.Especially the shoutout to Mary Shelly &amp; Philip K. Dick!&nbsp; I also include apocrypha, Dead Sea Scrolls and even the Nag Hammadi stuff into the mix when I think about the Bible.I also read the Torah in Hebrew.&nbsp; Even learned Qabbalah in its birthplace and worldwide center... the mystical village of Tzvat in the northern Galilee. While I would not say that this stuff is worthless, on the contrary it has some very powerful juice to it, I find it unsuited to our current hyperspeed times.&nbsp; It is designed to hide and keep secrets by couching them in ingenious code in plain site... underneath the allegories, Sumerian creation myths, and histories of a very influential family.&nbsp; However, for the most part, these secrets are all out of the closet now anyway.&nbsp; You can find literally hundreds of books that will give you the straight dope on this stuff without having to wade through years of intensive study.&nbsp; Until very recently, you had to be 40 years old, a man, married, with children, and an observant Orthodox Jew to receive initiation into Qabbalah.&nbsp; This is not the case now, but it is still a path that is just too long to walk in our short attention span theater world.&nbsp; Anyway, I am not sure about the actual existence of the various biblical characters.&nbsp; I am convinced many of them did exist in some form or another, though... Much of the historical parts of the Bible have been somewhat backed up by the archaeological record.&nbsp; Cities it mentioned that we thought were lost or never existed have largely been found now.&nbsp; The point is that it generally doesn&#039;t matter... from a mystic&#039;s point of view anyway.&nbsp; Fundamentalists have a shit fit over this stuff, but I am more interested in the experiential aspects of it.&nbsp; I have no use for faith.&nbsp; I want to know... and even more than that, I want to live it.I also don&#039;t see time as a linear thing.&nbsp; And I agree with you about creation in that something that always was, IS and always will be... something eternal and infinite, can have no beginning. This is the definition of an omnipresent deity.&nbsp; But, as much as I believe the Universe is one with, infused by, and created out of this eternal thing... my concept of G*d is also transcendent to the Universe we know, and thus I find origination and creation plausible in the sense that I originate and create dreamworlds dozens of times every night.&nbsp; The timelines within those dreams are not real, and there are historical aspects to them that are completely fabricated at the time of my creating them... but there is an ostensible beginning point from my perspective outside of the dream, and I am clearly the originator of many of the dream worlds I travel in.Anyway, I am sure now we have some things to disagree upon... but I was surprised to find that we really agree on an awful lot.Nice to see you Albert.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hyperspace Fool, post: 3575338, member: 10791"] Kind of amazingly, I have to second AKL here. We often agree on parts of these debates, but here, I have to agree with everything he said. Especially the shoutout to Mary Shelly & Philip K. Dick! I also include apocrypha, Dead Sea Scrolls and even the Nag Hammadi stuff into the mix when I think about the Bible. I also read the Torah in Hebrew. Even learned Qabbalah in its birthplace and worldwide center... the mystical village of Tzvat in the northern Galilee. While I would not say that this stuff is worthless, on the contrary it has some [i]very[/i] powerful juice to it, I find it unsuited to our current hyperspeed times. It is designed to hide and keep secrets by couching them in ingenious code in plain site... underneath the allegories, Sumerian creation myths, and histories of a very influential family. However, for the most part, these secrets are all out of the closet now anyway. You can find literally hundreds of books that will give you the straight dope on this stuff without having to wade through years of intensive study. Until [b]very[/b] recently, you had to be 40 years old, a man, married, with children, and an observant Orthodox Jew to receive initiation into Qabbalah. This is not the case now, but it is still a path that is just too long to walk in our short attention span theater world. Anyway, I am not sure about the actual existence of the various biblical characters. I am convinced many of them did exist in some form or another, though... Much of the historical parts of the Bible have been somewhat backed up by the archaeological record. Cities it mentioned that we thought were lost or never existed have largely been found now. The point is that it generally doesn't matter... from a mystic's point of view anyway. Fundamentalists have a shit fit over this stuff, but I am more interested in the [b]experiential [/b]aspects of it. I have no use for faith. I want to know... and even more than that, I want to live it. I also don't see time as a linear thing. And I agree with you about creation in that something that always was, IS and always will be... something [i]eternal[/i] and [i]infinite[/i], can have no beginning. This is the definition of an omnipresent deity. But, as much as I believe the Universe is one with, infused by, and created out of this eternal thing... my concept of G*d is also transcendent to the Universe we know, and thus I find origination and creation plausible in the sense that I originate and create dreamworlds dozens of times every night. The timelines within those dreams are not real, and there are historical aspects to them that are completely fabricated at the time of my creating them... but there is an ostensible beginning point from my perspective outside of the dream, and I am clearly the originator of many of the dream worlds I travel in. Anyway, I am sure now we have some things to disagree upon... but I was surprised to find that we really agree on an awful lot. Nice to see you Albert. [/QUOTE]