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I don’t see the point of breaking-through

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bahleille

bahleille

Rising Star
hi all,

it has been a long time since I felt like breaking through. I’m just going to write a little about my experiences , post, and watch what people want to say.

I used to breakthrough at a time when I wanted to « break through » my emotions. Literally break them and go past them so that they don’t bother me anymore. For that purpose, even if I was afraid, I had the motivation to take big loads, break through the fear and breakthrough in the trip.
People say that what matters is not the destination, it is the journey.
As far as I am concerned, that feeling of breakthrough to me is synonym to accidental high dose taking you there quicker than you can manage to follow. Or synonym to be willing to give a lot to understand something, or get rid of something. Anyway there is a sense of « whatever the means », or « getting there a all costs », or when it is an accidental breakthrough, a sense of being taken « too far » or « too quickly ».

As I write I realize my point of view is very personal, directed by my desire to keep control and my intentions in the background.

I have been in a space ship with a silent humanoid entity. It was an amazing experience, but I didn’t learn anything.
I have experienced things in hyperspace that I didn’t understand why it happened, what was the message, what was the intention of the things around me? very impressive things, full of wisdom, but I was not even able to communicate.
Sometimes I got answers of course, but it felt like being thrown in the deep swimming pool and having to make huge efforts to figure out what happens. Nothing like being slowly introduced, getting accustomed, getting the picture, making a small step because you want to instead of because you have to.

As I write I realize this is the story of me being thrown too early at school. The result is that the world is a very difficult place to get and to adapt to, it feels everybody but you know what is happening and feel good about it. It feels like being an explorer in an already explored world. The interesting point is that I don’t make the difference between something that has already been discovered something that has not, but the difficult point is that it is socially difficult sometimes, since I grew my own reasons to do this or that, in an effort to adapt and catch up with all I had to learn to be like the people surrounding me..

I’m keen to have some comments on that if any of you feel inspired, or want to ask me something.
In the bible there is something about « it is easier to see the straw in your neighbor’s eye than the beam in your own ». The « guilty » way of taking this is « mind you own business, you’re ten times worse than him ». I actually believe it is more easy to see stuff in other people sometimes, and that’s for the good because you can share what you see from an external standpoint. Some people pay for that. It is like the monkeys eating the bugs out of each other: if you see something on me and you can spot it to me so I can clean myself, please do.

I also wonder if some people enjoying their breakthrough could comment on that, does it feel to you like being taken to a foreign place by someone you don’t know, for a purpose you don’t know? Do you enjoy it? Is it not scary?

I'm a bit low as you can guess..:cry: :oops:
 
Two statements/themes appear in this post that stand out to me:

1) DMT breakthroughs as escapism

bahleille said:
I used to breakthrough at a time when I wanted to « break through » my emotions. Literally break them and go past them so that they don’t bother me anymore.
Click to expand...

2) Expecting DMT experiences to provide you with answers

bahleille said:
Sometimes I got answers of course, but it felt like being thrown in the deep swimming pool and having to make huge efforts to figure out what happens.
Click to expand...


To put it bluntly, both of these approaches can be (or are, imo) recipes for disaster. I don't know if you've read the Health & Safety section, but one of the statements you will find there is:

Warning

DMT is a bottomless well of never ending confoundment... It will call into question all that you know, all you’ve learned to accept as reality, and introduce you to a state of being which defies all comprehension.

...not all who choose to open the door deal well with the questions it raises.

Should you choose to proceed, be aware that integration issues may follow. What you find inside may change your life. It will almost certainly alter your deepest, most fundamental assumptions.
Click to expand...

This wasn't written as some amusing "look how edgy we can be" type statement...it's an earnest warning regarding the real dangers of spelunking around inside of the arenas facilitated by DMT. I feel this really addresses both of the themes I highlighted, though perhaps the second more than the first.

IMO/IME Looking for answers from DMT experiences is, in the absolute best case, equivalent to trying to drink from a collander. No matter how much water gets into your mouth, significantly more is going to splash onto the floor. Most likely, any answers you get are going to be shrouded in a million more questions.

And with regards to going into breakthroughs in an attempt to "break through" or "go past" or escape from your emotions, this strikes me as akin to finding yourself in a burning building and dousing yourself in kerosene to make yourself more flame-retardant.

Set and setting is no joke. The notion of using one of the most powerful/intense psychedelic compounds in an attempt to escape your emotions seems rather off, to me. The name psychedelic means "mind manifesting" yet here you are exposing yourself to one of the most powerful "mind manifesting" compounds in an attempt to avoid the manifestations of your mind (your emotions). Does that not seem a tad off to you?

I hope this doesn't come across as overly harsh. You mention that you're feeling low. Do you have activities and routines that tie you to waking life? Pursuits? Are you taking care of yourself via diet/exercise/etc? The nuts and bolts of life are likely of greater import on that topic than the results of your DMT trips.
 
Here are some topics to look though, bahleille, mainly dealing with why people take/enjoy drugs including DMT and one excellent thread dealing with why one should consider not taking DMT:

Why do YOU take entheogens?

Why do you smoke dmt?

Why do you love DMT?

Why do you take drugs?

Why you should NOT take DMT

For me, the breakthrough is where the most profound shifts in awareness/consciousness occur. I take it for the experience. It took me a long time to stop worrying about the "why" or "the point" of it all and to just accept it for what it is: a highly personal and powerful journey into the unknown. With DMT I observe, I leave expectations at the door, I show respect, I breathe, I laugh, I leave my body, I hide under my covers sometimes, I die but I always come back...it is all part of it. I wouldn't want it any other way!

:)
 
Hi,

SnozzleBerry said:
I hope this doesn't come across as overly harsh.
Click to expand...
Not at all, thanks for speaking straight. :thumb_up:

SnozzleBerry said:
The name psychedelic means "mind manifesting" yet here you are exposing yourself to one of the most powerful "mind manifesting" compounds in an attempt to avoid the manifestations of your mind (your emotions). Does that not seem a tad off to you?
Click to expand...
My original idea was to use the psychedelics to step back from emotions I have trouble with, let them take me again, so that i can understand them better, in order to accept them, so that it doesn't hurt anymore.
I thought that was the heart of emotional healing??:surprised :?: No?

What I would usually do is collect myself after hard times, tell myself something like: "I've been submerged by this weird feeling, I can't get what it is, why it is, let's go logical again, take the psychedelic and investigate it. If it gets worse after that, i have to let it settle and come back to it later with another way."
That is how I have discovered about exploring other peoples lives: exploring other peoples lives (shortened to 10 lines ;) - Introduction Essay - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Just saying it is what I have been doing. I don't know any other way or reason to do DMT, it is how I learnt in Peru. Come with an intention, or "something on the table". I couldn't help investigate afterwards.

To me it is a bit more than escapism, maybe I am wrong?
I stay focused on my emotions for sure, maybe that's why I feel stuck in them.
I probabely don't see clear enough yet.

SnozzleBerry said:
Do you have activities and routines that tie you to waking life? Pursuits? Are you taking care of yourself via diet/exercise/etc?
Click to expand...
kind of, but this kind of low appear sometimes like that all of sudden.My life is not very well structured for sure, haven't got a 9 to 5, more a seasoner, live in a truck, helping people here and there, start some projects only to find about the emotional reason that made me initiate that. Then the project has no sense anymore.

I feel like there is a battle between my emotions and finding a structured life. so I push in the two directions and each one sends me back to the other.
 
Thanks for the links gratefulOne.
I'm sorry I feel weird at the moment, I know it is not really enjoyable to read, I thought maybe if I am able to show it in my writing, it would be a start for accepting it, and maybe seeing peoples reaction could show me I don't need to hide it.
I think it is working.
 
It happens people have expectations that are not in line with the experience, I tend to believe most people had to re-gauge their style of why/how along the way. Who can be readily tuned in, in advance? Even the core of best advice start to resonate truly after some acquaintance. Now that you're arrived at that point where expectations aren't clearly met (control of emotions, getting answers, wanting it slow-steady..) , now you start to question it and come to "I don’t see the point of breaking-trough".

For me it is like yoga: you make efforts to keep yourself fit/flexible by introducing dynamics/change. For example: during yoga one never ask him(her)self "Why exactly is my arm stretched like this I don't see the point there's nothing to grab there." Exactly! If you have expectations on what is there to grab then you'll be disappointed in yoga. Like in: today I've stretched my arm 100 times and in none of those cases it held a reason to grab something, there was nothing to gab at, how disappointing.

Suggestion: leave the direct satisfaction reward route and look how dynamics (even without a clear visible goal) can be life time important to do, it keeps your energetic system flowing.

The plants for me is like perception yoga. Not really that much interested in what's to gain once in a (different) perception, but mostly interested in being able to make perception shifts as such, to become not stagnated in one reality perception. This is not a level one expectation but bitter result experience that it does works for me in that way.

Guess what: due gaining perception flexibility, my emotional lens has lost a ton of its former dogma over me. So emotional control was obtained (to degree) but rather as a natural effluent spin off, as a side effect. I'm afraid if emo-control was a level one expectant from the start I would have missed the whole train that could lead toward it.

By not running an expectation store, all of that energy comes free for serendipity and other stuff that now gets breath room. The chance that you will see initial expectations covered over time is quite large, but just because you did not dig like a pig for them.

My 2 cents.
 
thanks :thumb_up: , you don't know what your two cents mean to me..
but mostly interested in being able to make perception shifts as such, to become not stagnated in one reality perception
Click to expand...
That is what this post is doing to me. ;)
Anybody else? :shock:
 
Here is my input;

1) I assume that you are speaking of vaporized DMT. Although this can be a very powerful experience, if you are like me, you will find the trip too brief to reliably pull anything meaningful from it. I am able to find meaning on occasion but it is very difficult to grasp onto. It is often whispy or slippery, wriggling away with the first relaxation. I have found other ROAs to be so much more valuable in their potential for bringing insight back to consensus reality and effecting positive change in my life. Of course, these ROAs all come with a price, but that is the nature of the beast.

2) DMT is one of many tools in the psychedelic tool chest. It is a powerful tool, but often not the right tool for the job. You wouldn't reach for a chainsaw when you need a scalpel. If I'm having a true existential crisis, DMT is appropriate but I've found that for most issues, a light dose of shrooms or LSD can put me in a mindset that allows a better perspective and healing.

3) Heavy doses of psychedelics can often do more harm than good. Whether it's the heroic dose of shrooms or a breakthrough on DMT, panic and anxiety can easily wreck a trip. I have found that some of my most valuable trips are low to middle dosage. There is a value to being half here and half there or just having ones toes in the water. I know that some people need this full immersion to find what they are looking for but I find this to be inaccurate for most including myself. I think the breakthrough experience is something of great value but that it is often overvalued and thus pursued by those who aren't ready or would be ill advised to take such an adventure.

4) It is entirely possible that the right tool isn't in the psychedelic tool chest at all. Sometimes we just need to meditate or talk to someone who has some empathy and insight. Sometimes I just need to take a day off from the stress of life and take a walk. I often find psychedelics invaluable for showing me my problems, but entirely useless at solving them. I think that some of us (myself included) become so mesmerized by the power of psychedelic drugs that we fail to see that we are surrounded by tools for our minds and that psychedelics are only a small piece of the puzzle.
 
Syberdelic i agree on all you said. These are all my own conclusion and practice as well.

The new stuff for me here is the concept of a life style, being what you want to be for the sake of it and not for a purpose.. My life was based on going towards a purpose all the time. Enjoying rest, or holiday, or time is one thing, but enjoying yourself as a living creature without a purpose is ..new.. Got to let my brain get used to this weird idea ^^
 
If I'm reading you correctly, I've found the same thing. To sum it up quickly, if my problems are here then being out there misses the bullseye. And if what I'm asking for is in regards to out there, then being here won't usually offer much.

It would be cool if there was a 1 shot fix but apparently this life is just, complicated. It would be great if our current settings were more similar to what you find in the "jungle" and not how our society is currently set up. So much running around and things that need to be done that amount to nothing really and just reset to 0 at the beginning of each month. There are much more important things I would like to be devoting my time to, and the flesh clock is ticking.
 
Yea, I also have given up on having a purpose in life for the reason that having a purpose suggests either that one has knowledge of why they are here or that they have essentially given up on their own path and adopted what someone else has decreed should be their purpose. I would also say that seeing others paths such as jungle folk and thinking they have things figured out is also problematic. I have been down that road and it's very flawed.
 
@bahleille; There is no point in breaking through, other than breaking through.

Asher7 said:
It would be cool if there was a 1 shot fix but apparently this life is just, complicated. It would be great if our current settings were more similar to what you find in the "jungle" and not how our society is currently set up. So much running around and things that need to be done that amount to nothing really and just reset to 0 at the beginning of each month. There are much more important things I would like to be devoting my time to, and the flesh clock is ticking.
Click to expand...

Don't blame the "others" or any concept or thing. It is you, all the way, who is dictating every action you perform to yourself (keeping on breathing included)! When we give up self-responsibility in any moment, we create a reality of being at the mercy of some uncontrolable and strange source.
Like all the actions you perform, all the thoughts you have and all the feelings you experience in every moment, are just expressions of your underlying "mechanics/processes". This setup, and even this 3d-reality itself, we find ourselves in, is also an expression (of ...) of our adaption to what is, to the now.

What ever sense or meaning in life you create, it is all yours and you make it ours. What holds you back to the live the dream you are dreaming? Fear... of death?

This..... right now.... is part of y our experience.

A psychedelic experience (induced by psychedelic substances) CAN be a 1 shot "fix" (what ever that means) if we listen, comprehend, transfer and integrate the "message(s)" it reveals.
We are all inseperable interwoven (I learned this word from tatt ;) ) with each other, with life. We are (part of) the puzzle, the bigger picture, the unfolding infinite potential, the mysterium. It/we/you/I is/are/am perfect already. There is nowhere to go and nothing to become, more than this right now. We unfold as a pattern of an endless fractal and penetrate the now with love. Full power.

Even if this all might be a great illusion, we are having fun. If we don't want to play the cosmic joke, the whole show collapses.

tseuq
 
@ tseuq, that all sounds trippy and poetic and cool but I'm not sure I'm jumping on board with that belief. Yes I assume responsibility for my actions, but at the root of it some of those actions I would never have done had some "outside source" not dictated that I was given whatever options to a specific scenario that I did not create.

There are things outside of you that influence your decisions and where it is you end up after making that decision that is completely out of your choice or control. I can't will a different earth, or a lack of earth entirely.
 
@bahlielle
It's refreshing to see earnestness regarding doubts about DMT. Instead of going through the motions of self-inquiry hoping the "guru" will spot how good you are at a thing, ending up down a path of years with false road marks. You are stopping at each fork and feature on the path and looking into the mirror of your environment and seeing yourself through the warped surface of experience, with clarity and lightness you make your next step even if the path is hazy. This is good stuff man.
Emotions are a pain in the proverbial butt, integrating them is the easiest impossible thing you will do. Yoga has helped me immensely to release unecesaary and stagnant emotions, and I don't plan on taking DMT until some of the moar nasty aspects of my emotional past are brought into the fold.
You got my up vote homie ;)
 
Asher7 said:
@ tseuq, that all sounds trippy and poetic and cool but I'm not sure I'm jumping on board with that belief. Yes I assume responsibility for my actions, but at the root of it some of those actions I would never have done had some "outside source" not dictated that I was given whatever options to a specific scenario that I did not create.
Click to expand...

Alone, swimming in an endless sea and we already know, that there is no escape, no rescue, we are lost, we are going to die.

Why keep on swimming....?

Regardless of the consequences, ultimately it is you, who is on the buzzer.

tseuq
 
What do you mean when you say buzzer? I want to make sure I don't think you're saying one thing when you really mean another.
 
@Koornut
If I get it right, you approve my work --> Cool ^^
If I misunderstood please let me believe a bit longer, I like the illusion haha

that yoga has been knocking on my door for quite some time now, i need to find a way to try to integrate it in my life, or make a try..

by the way, what is it with the moar, and the smoalk, and this trippy way of writing the sound "O"?
 
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