s0nicflash
Esteemed member
Yes, simplification was my intention!
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Implication of language on perception of reality?
- Thread starter Traged
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s0nicflash
Esteemed member
Thanks! Concerning objectivism: if you would assume that reality basically is not split into subjective and objective, 'objects' could still be described as logical constructs. And these constructs are the building blocks of language.
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
If reality is not split, then I think we’d have to admit that we can’t know for sure what objects are. We can make proposals, or assume things. Logic is a possible route, I’d say.
I think we can also change the vantage. This "split" doesn't seem to be a gap, but more of a delineation. Instead of being like a canyon, it's more like lines on a chessboard.
One love
One love
The language of the heart, thanks for sharing, I have a strong feeling that I need to be reminded of this more often, thanks.
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
Yes, you don’t need language to have an experience. But why would you even call yourself ‘human’ then?
The idea that we are having a ‘human’ experience only seems needlessly restrictive. I can have one, and I don’t … object, but there’s more to this than that. Or maybe much less.
s0nicflash
Esteemed member
Map and territory, right?
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
आदिमतत्त्वम्
Esteemed member
Complex human language ( unlike detailed animal memory,lost for us) is both a tool and a limitation. It encodes the world through arbitrary symbols, linked to concepts that depend on our experience and senses. It acts as a filter: we choose to observe and define what we can schematize, focus on, and ultimately name. This process is influenced by the necessity and significance of a phenomenon, tied to environmental adaptability. Such "definitions" limit our perception to what is comprehensible within the already established neurological, linguistic, and cultural structures of humanity.
For instance, color is not an objective reality but the result of physical interactions (wavelengths) interpreted by nervous systems. Different cultures attribute varying names and meanings to identical colors, thereby influencing emotions, associations, and even decisions based on these perceptions. If a language lacks a word for a particular color, that shade might be perceived differently or even go unnoticed.
The hypotheses presented in the video are valid as hypotheses, though they stem from subjective conclusions.
Measurement and observation are never neutral. They are influenced by us, the methods we use, and the preconceptions we bring to the table. This is especially true when attempting to "quantify" complex phenomena such as emotions, perceptions, or environmental interconnections. Our technology is an extension of our minds and, as a narrative, inherits our cognitive and cultural limitations.
For example, discoveries of phenomena imperceptible to humans, such as infrared light, often arise from errors because one cannot find (except by mistake) what one is not actively searching for. Novelty emerges from unforeseen deviations from the "norm"; otherwise, it is simply innovation, updating, or imitation, not a creative process.
Biases hold value in both efficiency and obsolescence—they are necessary.
We are often blind to interconnections. Our linear perception of time and reductionist analysis lead us to isolate causes and effects, ignoring systemic influences. This confines our understanding to utilitarian frameworks and renders us short-sighted.
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An additional consideration, tied to our previous discussion:
Observing a monkey with its visual cortex removed, Helen Humphrey noted that the animal could interact with its environment surprisingly effectively, even though it appeared to have no visual awareness. This dissociation is similar to what is observed in humans with "blindsight" following brain damage: unconscious vision without the sensation of seeing.
Today, we have made significant discoveries about the awareness and interaction of plants, fungi, and insects compared to Humphrey's era. In this new context, the phenomenon of blindsight takes on a broader significance. If we consider that even organisms lacking a cortex (or a central nervous system) can respond intelligently and in a coordinated manner:
Conscious awareness, particularly in its sophisticated forms, might simply be an advanced manifestation of perception and response processes that exist in "simpler" forms (from a human perspective).
In light of current discoveries, the distinction between "robotic consciousness" and "conscious awareness" becomes more nuanced. Consciousness is not necessarily a binary phenomenon (present/absent) but a continuum of complexity and specialization. Even the simplest organisms, like insects, plants, and fungi, can display forms of perception and response that deserve to be considered in a new light.
This perspective calls for a paradigm shift in our understanding of life, urging us to develop observation tools and languages that transcend human limitations.
unfortunately to do this we must admit that a radical revolution of the entire human system is necessary, otherwise we will never be able to have the necessary prerequisites to adapt our overall vision (dependent on the proactive daily life we have with reality) and therefore also our observation methods outside of the subjective needs intrinsic to maintaining the status quo.
every step forward we try to justify the adaptation and modulation of these new steps, 100 steps back.
the enigma is... how?
in psychedelics I often see a strong potential, but it is also true that the boundary between efficiency and obsolescence of these also depends on the modulation of environmental adaptability.
beyond the subjective benefits, balancing the ego is of little use if it is then adapted to an unbalanced system, dysfunctional by its intrinsic nature, however implicit or explicit it may be in every old and emerging context.
sorry for my English, I hope you understand.
For instance, color is not an objective reality but the result of physical interactions (wavelengths) interpreted by nervous systems. Different cultures attribute varying names and meanings to identical colors, thereby influencing emotions, associations, and even decisions based on these perceptions. If a language lacks a word for a particular color, that shade might be perceived differently or even go unnoticed.
The hypotheses presented in the video are valid as hypotheses, though they stem from subjective conclusions.
Measurement and observation are never neutral. They are influenced by us, the methods we use, and the preconceptions we bring to the table. This is especially true when attempting to "quantify" complex phenomena such as emotions, perceptions, or environmental interconnections. Our technology is an extension of our minds and, as a narrative, inherits our cognitive and cultural limitations.
For example, discoveries of phenomena imperceptible to humans, such as infrared light, often arise from errors because one cannot find (except by mistake) what one is not actively searching for. Novelty emerges from unforeseen deviations from the "norm"; otherwise, it is simply innovation, updating, or imitation, not a creative process.
Biases hold value in both efficiency and obsolescence—they are necessary.
We are often blind to interconnections. Our linear perception of time and reductionist analysis lead us to isolate causes and effects, ignoring systemic influences. This confines our understanding to utilitarian frameworks and renders us short-sighted.
---
An additional consideration, tied to our previous discussion:
Observing a monkey with its visual cortex removed, Helen Humphrey noted that the animal could interact with its environment surprisingly effectively, even though it appeared to have no visual awareness. This dissociation is similar to what is observed in humans with "blindsight" following brain damage: unconscious vision without the sensation of seeing.
Today, we have made significant discoveries about the awareness and interaction of plants, fungi, and insects compared to Humphrey's era. In this new context, the phenomenon of blindsight takes on a broader significance. If we consider that even organisms lacking a cortex (or a central nervous system) can respond intelligently and in a coordinated manner:
Conscious awareness, particularly in its sophisticated forms, might simply be an advanced manifestation of perception and response processes that exist in "simpler" forms (from a human perspective).
In light of current discoveries, the distinction between "robotic consciousness" and "conscious awareness" becomes more nuanced. Consciousness is not necessarily a binary phenomenon (present/absent) but a continuum of complexity and specialization. Even the simplest organisms, like insects, plants, and fungi, can display forms of perception and response that deserve to be considered in a new light.
This perspective calls for a paradigm shift in our understanding of life, urging us to develop observation tools and languages that transcend human limitations.
unfortunately to do this we must admit that a radical revolution of the entire human system is necessary, otherwise we will never be able to have the necessary prerequisites to adapt our overall vision (dependent on the proactive daily life we have with reality) and therefore also our observation methods outside of the subjective needs intrinsic to maintaining the status quo.
every step forward we try to justify the adaptation and modulation of these new steps, 100 steps back.
the enigma is... how?
in psychedelics I often see a strong potential, but it is also true that the boundary between efficiency and obsolescence of these also depends on the modulation of environmental adaptability.
beyond the subjective benefits, balancing the ego is of little use if it is then adapted to an unbalanced system, dysfunctional by its intrinsic nature, however implicit or explicit it may be in every old and emerging context.
sorry for my English, I hope you understand.
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
I can imagine us not calling ourselves human anymore at some point. To be mycelial nodes perhaps? In touch with biodiversity again.
What would be your preferred .. genus?
What would be your preferred .. genus?
Shall I lichen thee to a summer's day?
The golden sunlight feeds us while we sleep
'Pon shaded bough, and second'ry metabolites so fair
Nourish minds with insight e'er so deep.
Or something
Dictyonema, obviously
आदिमतत्त्वम्
Esteemed member
I don't know, who knows...maybe we'll reach a point of interconnection for which we won't need labels but only simple sounds, gestures to call each other or directly telepathy! And maybe some technologically advanced alien species but with a hypertrophic ego and in constant hyperplasia that would visit us, observing us they would wonder if we aren't simply "stupid"
.Alternatively, bah... I would choose something similar to ǃNǃaniʼKxoaʼn!a!uma which very hypothetically in the Ikung language would mean:
children and portion of the essence/heart of the whole, in connection and vital balance with the universe.
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
Language has led us to this point.
We can thank it for services rendered, and move on
We can thank it for services rendered, and move on
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
s0nicflash
Esteemed member
Considering overcoming language - a friend just send me this - quite well fitting:
podcastaddict.com
The Telepathy Tapes
Listen to The Telepathy Tapes by Ky Dickens on Podcast Addict. In a world that often dismisses the extraordinary as mere fantasy, The Telepathy Tapes dares to explore the profound abilities of non-speakers with autism—individuals who have long been misunderstood and underestimated. These silent...
podcastaddict.com
CommonConduit
🎨 ‘Yab Yum’ by Burgandy Viscosi
Considering overcoming language - a friend just send me this - quite well fitting:
The Telepathy Tapes
Listen to The Telepathy Tapes by Ky Dickens on Podcast Addict. In a world that often dismisses the extraordinary as mere fantasy, The Telepathy Tapes dares to explore the profound abilities of non-speakers with autism—individuals who have long been misunderstood and underestimated. These silent...
Yes, heard good things about it!
rkba
Established member
When I was a toddler we would often go to the same small campground in France on summer vacation. On the campground I would play with the french kids and we would communicate without any problems, despite the obvious language differences. My Mom still talks about how wonderful and strange that was. I have memories of playing with them, but no recollection of the type of communication. I do remember that it just was not an issue. Now the smell of chestnut trees, abundant on that campground, always floods my body with feelings and memories from 50+ yrs ago. Amazing.
Last edited:
rkba
Established member
Considering overcoming language - a friend just send me this - quite well fitting:
The Telepathy Tapes
Listen to The Telepathy Tapes by Ky Dickens on Podcast Addict. In a world that often dismisses the extraordinary as mere fantasy, The Telepathy Tapes dares to explore the profound abilities of non-speakers with autism—individuals who have long been misunderstood and underestimated. These silent...
The Telepathy Tapes resonate tremendously with me! Thanks for sharing!
It seems that we are truly accelerating towards a jump into the next realm. Whatever that may entail.
The end of Episode 9 is like I'm listening to my own thoughts told by someone else, truly weird! Really interesting! Did we just create these Tapes ourselves and they are reflecting our newly perceived reality? Life is truly our own Magic at work.
