Interpolation and mirroring by entities

[Chadaev]

There is a theory (check Althusser, Lacan, Zizek et. al.), that our identities are a result of 'interpolation': we don't know who we are until we recognise ourselves in a call or a summons addressed to us from some other. A classic example is the policeman who shouts out 'Hey you!', and, on account of an unconscious guilt or fear, you recognise yourself in that call as potentially guilty of some crime.

Another theory, from the same crowd, argues that at a more basic level (the level of the imaginary rather than the symbolic), we gain an early sense of our identity when mirrored by others. For example, the child comes to know itself in the loving gaze (the mirror) of its mother or other caregiver.

Which leads me to turn the usual question about entities around. Rather than 'What are they?', my question is this: Have you become something different to yourself following encounters with hyperspace entities?

I think this might be a worthwhile issue to pursue as human social relations open up once again, at least in communities like this, to 'social' relations with spirit beings, entities, and what not.

I have definitely found that the 'gaze' of these others can be intense!

Any examples appreciated.

 

[null24]

That is interesting. I recall as a young child gazing into a mirror and becoming lost in thoughts of who am 'I'. I don't know about the credence of those theories though, they posit that personality is completely developed from without, from the interactions with authority.

As far as developments of personality from entity encounters on DMT I don't personally think so. I'm pretty entrenched in my personality though, at 45 y.o. I do know that LSD had a huge part to play in my personality development. It helped bring me out of my shell and be more courageous in my social interaction, with females especially.

Entity encounters with me are akin to meeting gods. And according to the (original pre dynastic) Egyptians, all the varying aspects of the various gods are all only aspects of the self, senses in the parlance. 180 male, 180female 'senses ' that together make up the creative force. And all these senses are part of the human psyche. That is why temples were dedicated to singular gods, in this temples, mysteries were celebrated and performed that brought out these senses, allowing humanity to develop to its highest potential, that's my concept of it anyway.

So, when your meeting these entities , your meeting your cosmic self, sort of the archetypes from Adam Kadmon's mind.

 

[RAM]

It's spelled "interpellation" - I thought it was interpolation at first too, but this is actually a different statistical/musical concept. If you want to research further you need to spell it like this.

I view interpellation as the action or inaction because of some ideology. The classic example is the black man who is interpellated to the point of whistling Vivaldi when a white woman passes him on the street and clutches her bag. The underlying ideology inspired by society is that the black man is likely uneducated and aggressive, and he may assault the white woman. By whistling the classic composer, he proves his educated status and that he is not going to hurt the woman (even though this could be totally false). So he was interpellated to action.

Regarding DMT use, I have felt interpellated before not necessarily by any specific entities, but by the molecule itself. I despise when people talk about DMT in a disrespectful manner or carnivalize the molecule, partly because I feel there is some kind of ideological presence behind the DMT experience who will punish those who engage in such disrespect. This doesn't seem to truly be the case, as I'm sure there are many people who disrespect DMT and have amazing trips, and it's just my propensity for negative trips that causes me to think this.

It's funny how I can know this and still do it, but I'll chalk that up to the cynical functioning of ideology. Honestly hyperspace itself is kind of an ideological safe-zone for me; after I take those first couple hits, I regain a feeling of authenticity that I don't have everyday.

A lot of people refer to this as the deja vu of the DMT experience, as it feels like "I've been here before." But I just see it as the loss of human ideology in a world that is ruled, or not ruled, by some other major force.

On LSD, psilocybin, and marijuana I am much more prone to being interpellated and noticing ideology in society. The extreme stimuli is like an ideological flush, and the first few times I did a lot of these substances, it hurt A LOT. But like my signature below says, you must force yourself to do it!

 

[Chadaev]

Entity encounters with me are akin to meeting gods. And according to the (original pre dynastic) Egyptians, all the varying aspects of the various gods are all only aspects of the self, senses in the parlance. 180 male, 180female 'senses ' that together make up the creative force. And all these senses are part of the human psyche.

That's interesting, null24. I don't know this parlance. Should I understand 'senses' as derivative of, or associated with, sense perception?

I can follow the idea that the entities are gods are aspects of one's own psyche, but I would still assume that meeting these aspects face to face would have a significant impact on one's own self-concept.... I guess here we might get conversion stories (I used to be an atheist materialist, now I'm ...x), but probably this only makes a big difference to personal identity when the encounters with these 'gods' get deeply internalised. How is it to have a psyche which is the playground of so many gods??

It's spelled "interpellation" - I thought it was interpolation at first too, but this is actually a different statistical/musical concept. If you want to research further you need to spell it like this.

Thanks

Regarding DMT use, I have felt interpellated before not necessarily by any specific entities, but by the molecule itself. I despise when people talk about DMT in a disrespectful manner or carnivalize the molecule, partly because I feel there is some kind of ideological presence behind the DMT experience who will punish those who engage in such disrespect. This doesn't seem to truly be the case, as I'm sure there are many people who disrespect DMT and have amazing trips, and it's just my propensity for negative trips that causes me to think this.

It's funny how I can know this and still do it, but I'll chalk that up to the cynical functioning of ideology. Honestly hyperspace itself is kind of an ideological safe-zone for me; after I take those first couple hits, I regain a feeling of authenticity that I don't have everyday.

So this is a curious zone impregnated with a kind of ideology which allows or compels authenticity? Or is it the sloughing off of everyday human ideology which provides, by comparison, the sense of authenticity?

I think Zizek would say that here we have the (fantasy of) a big Other who stands behind the discredited socio-symbolic big Other...

My sense, all the same, is of being in the presence of an ancient power-energy. It makes me feel like a neophyte, someone entering unprepared into the oceans of the immortals, or quasi-immortals, because no preparation is enough. Still, I'm still unsure how exactly it has changed me.

On LSD, psilocybin, and marijuana I am much more prone to being interpellated and noticing ideology in society. The extreme stimuli is like an ideological flush, and the first few times I did a lot of these substances, it hurt A LOT. But like my signature below says, you must force yourself to do it!

Ja! Zizek's way of extracting himself from ideology, as far as I can tell, is to identify with what he calls, following Freud and Lacan, 'death drive', or put otherwise, immortal libido-mortido. But I wonder how that identification comes about. And I'm certain that the liberation opened up by psychoactive molecules goes to places unimagined by Zizek. That is, there is a kind of 'ideology critique' available here which social theorists have barely touched on... So what do we become on the other side of the veil??

 

[null24]

Okay, well, i think i missed the point of the thread entirely with the 'o' being an 'i'.

BUT, the idea of the 360 'senses', as i understand it, are related to the the five that we know commonly. But along with these, which are the basic ways of relating to and interacting with environment, are those higher senses that the psychedelic state enables, for one.
Probably related to kundalini type energies, i imagine. Apparently, the plethora of gods were a way to externalize them and cultivate the forces within oneself. Therefore, individual temples where the 'mysteries' of that particular god were taught.

As for the psyche being the playground of so many deity forms, is it not already, lol? Maybe balanced, those psychic (as in parts of the psyche) perform better! I wouldn't know.

 

[RAM]

So this is a curious zone impregnated with a kind of ideology which allows or compels authenticity? Or is it the sloughing off of everyday human ideology which provides, by comparison, the sense of authenticity?

I think Zizek would say that here we have the (fantasy of) a big Other who stands behind the discredited socio-symbolic big Other...

My sense, all the same, is of being in the presence of an ancient power-energy. It makes me feel like a neophyte, someone entering unprepared into the oceans of the immortals, or quasi-immortals, because no preparation is enough. Still, I'm still unsure how exactly it has changed me.

While I "feel" authentic in hyperspace, it is important to recognize that these feelings themselves are an illusion. Maybe like you say I am just tossing human ideology aside for some other kind, but since I can really only remember the human world in which I was raised, one could argue this is a no-ideology-zone, since ideology is a human concept, to our knowledge. At the same time it could just be an illusion, but any time I lose all notion of space, time, and identity and only maintain my awareness I see that as an adventure in objectivity.

I am an epistemological solipsist, which means I the only objective fact that I can know is that I am aware, or that I have an awareness as opposed to not having one (I am conscious). Nothing else is certain. While I believe other people and things to exist somehow, I have no solid, objective proof at the moment and do not anticipate any. I'm not saying these other things don't exist; I'm just saying that I can't be sure of their existence at this time.

During moments of self-perceived enlightenment I return to this primal state of existence where the only thing I am is my awareness. DMT is so odd in that I go to this state, but then I see crazy hyperspatial entities and environments. So while I feel more authentic, I still posit that I am having a subjective experience, and another person in the exact same place/time/mindset/whatever in hyperspace would be experiencing something completely different.

I feel this is why a lot of people claim that "it's all in your head, all creations of your mind." I think that this view doesn't do the experience justice; it makes DMT seem like just like a hallucination that can teach you stuff if you're lucky. But I see it as an exploit in considering these very things, and when you can crack your mind open to experience two, three, to an infinite number of different things at the same time, then you have truly broken all lenses on how beings interact with whatever this is that surrounds us.

Ja! Zizek's way of extracting himself from ideology, as far as I can tell, is to identify with what he calls, following Freud and Lacan, 'death drive', or put otherwise, immortal libido-mortido. But I wonder how that identification comes about. And I'm certain that the liberation opened up by psychoactive molecules goes to places unimagined by Zizek. That is, there is a kind of 'ideology critique' available here which social theorists have barely touched on... So what do we become on the other side of the veil??

I have always wondered what Zizek thinks about psychedelics. I was fascinated by the part in "The Pervert's Guide to Ideology" when he talks about the glasses in "They Live" that allow people to see critique of ideology. I've watched the movie plenty of times and every time I think a lot about how the glasses are really an analogy for LSD or psychedelics in general.

I see critique of ideology everywhere when I use psychs, and they have allowed me to see it in my everyday life as well (thus fulfilling Zizek's desire of not having to "put on ze glasses" for critique of ideology). Now it's not as explicit as John Nada of course, but I realize the motivations behind all of these "things" in society, ushc as TV shows, advertisements, objects, people's actions and expressions, etc.

I've decided that I'm going to trip in a forest next time, so the only human ideology I'll be confronted with is a bench or something like that. Seeing society this way tends to ruin things for me. Any time I watch a show on psychs it is completely ruined for me afterward, and I think my last few experiences ruined fictional shows completely for me.

To get on the other side of the veil, like you ask, involves use of psychedelics and study of social science in my opinion. You also need to think about this kind of stuff constantly to not fall back into ideological traps, and you need to be aware of all of your personal biases, no matter how deep. The cost of this however is minor insanity and loneliness.

I've met very few people in my travels who are willing to admit completely different worldviews and acknowledge subjectivity to the level that I do, and most see me as weird or crazy if I start blabbing about it. I'm glad I have a couple close psychedelic buddies and the Nexus to entertain and motivate all of these thoughts!