introduction

[Abrazaderas]

i'm experienced with drugs and mysticism, hello, offering my perspective. it should be mutually amusing. note that i lend no credibility to either drugs or mysticism.

 

[Vodsel]

Hello, abrazaderas.

Can you elaborate a little on that "no credibility" bit? You mean you cannot believe in neither drugs or mysticism?

 

[Abrazaderas]

Hello, abrazaderas.

Can you elaborate a little on that "no credibility" bit? You mean you cannot believe in neither drugs or mysticism?

i do believe in them, i've seen drugs and mysticism with my own eyes, known and felt them. i'm confident in my assertion they exist; however, it is not my experience that either of them can produce "coin of the realm", and pay their own way. i see them as expensive luxuries that certain kinds of people prefer and others do not. the progeny of something meaningful, but inherently meaningless. and the road they guide one on is more fraught with illusion, depravity, self deception, then any other. so many people desperate for conclusions, (despite that what has no beginning can have no end) only too eager to be taken in by powerful experiences that drugs or mysticism can offer, the seduction of psychological submission. often resulting in a treadmill to run on, in-sanity of enlightenment, poor sanitation.

i've been to the mountain tops; by no means am i trying to dissuade anyone from drugs or mysticism. but remember this :there is nothing up there to see, or gain. knowledge is a form of confusion. once you find what you're looking for its only natural you stop looking. if you go to look into the abyss, as a seeker, take care not to fall in because your entire life will be over in a serious way.

in essence, give credit where credit is due.

 

[Vodsel]

I take from that you personally have not earned anything from your experiences with drugs, or from your attempts at mystical disciplines or techniques.

However, when you state "there is nothing up there to see, or gain" I presume you are aware that you are talking in absolutes, and that's something that will earn you some opposition - not necessarily based in the wishful belief in the contrary of what you say, but in personal experiences as well.

Yet, you reasonably say that you are not trying to dissuade anyone from drugs or mysticism.

What follows is - what is your purpose in joining this community then?

 

[Abrazaderas]

I take from that you personally have not earned anything from your experiences with drugs, or from your attempts at mystical disciplines or techniques.

hmm, what is there to earn? sensation is its own reward. i think the value that is to be acquired by these methods is only realized when it hits you that they are, and always were, meaningless and impotent. then what of all you felt? it seemed so significant! messenger, versus, the message.

However, when you state "there is nothing up there to see, or gain" I presume you are aware that you are talking in absolutes, and that's something that will earn you some opposition - not necessarily based in the wishful belief in the contrary of what you say, but in personal experiences as well.

we never really can be sure that all along we weren't completely wrong about everything, and that around the next corner lies something that will invalidate all we know, can we?

Yet, you reasonably say that you are not trying to dissuade anyone from drugs or mysticism.

What follows is - what is your purpose in joining this community then?

mutual amusement. i like to talk about things, maybe that some people here feel the same.

 

[Vodsel]

we never really can be sure that all along we weren't completely wrong about everything, and that around the next corner lies something that will invalidate all we know, can we?

Certainly. And this key fact is often realized after making strong assumptions, or giving certain beliefs and hypotheses a try. Even if the only outcome for you happens to be disenchant or disappointment. Although this disappointment is strongly related to your own previous expectations.

We can discuss for hours about methods, reasons, hopes and beliefs. And I'm game for that, just like you. The only bit we disagree in, for starters, is the idea that mysticism or drugs return nothing. If anything for sure, these are tools for knowing yourself. For some, that knowledge might appear at arrival. For most, it keeps appearing on the march. And that seems to be one the most important things you can do with your time, because self knowledge marks everything you do, alone or in company.

I know lots of people who are thankful for what they got; No matter what my experience was, I would never say there's nothing to get. At the most, I might say there's nothing I could find, or nothing I hoped to find. And that is a quite different thing.

 

[corpus callosum]

Welcome Abrazaderas!


Interesting thread you've started here; I see little wrong with mutual amusement.

You have described drugs and nysticism as the progeny of something meaningful; if that is so then who/what are the ancestors?

Im not that up on mysticism but I partially agree with you regarding credibility and drugs-that is if we define credibility as meaning worthy of trust.The psychedlic headspace, IMO, needs sieving to grasp the bits which may be credible from the 'chaff' that isnt.And I think this varies between different people who partake.

Regarding the view from the mountain-top, some will achieve a sense of awe (however fleeting) whilst others may simply realise their head for heights is not as they thought.And indeed some will end up like Sisyphus, rolling the boulder up the ascent, only to watch it fall from their grasp meaning the whole process gets repeated with nothing achieved but weariness.

Once more, welcome.

 

[Abrazaderas]

The only bit we disagree in, for starters, is the idea that mysticism or drugs return nothing.

i would say the same for every other experience or phenomenon, as well. i concur, these things are tools, and self-knowledge is the crux of the matter. i'd even say that drugs have been indispensable in my own life for some lessons.

dmt more powerfully then anything showed me how there is nothing to 'get'. or obtain or consume or possess or see or do that will somehow increase your value or success or completion or 'happiness', (unless you consider happiness to be excitement as many seem to). in fact it is my assertion that all but the best of us have great deal we need to be rid of, much to be destroyed or severed if one desires self knowledge, should such a thing even exist as we know it. really i should go farther; there is nothing to get, there is an infinity to give.

what are the ancestors

what is meaningful? only meaning. our often overlooked faculty of generating meaning, as opposed to the fictitious faculty of finding it. motivation is what i class both fun and cosmic purpose under. motivation, animation, animal. it comes from itself. is it i? it's like a sun, or a nuclear reactor, just a machine that runs for a life and then stops.

I know nobody knows
Where it comes and where it goes

Aerosmith - Dream On

Regarding the view from the mountain-top

well, i did come back with some postcards. i left everything else.

 

[Vodsel]

there is nothing to get, there is an infinity to give.

I will toast to that. And I thank psychedelics and meditation, among other things, for helping me see not what I need, but what I have, so I can give without fear of getting empty.

 

[Abrazaderas]

there is nothing to get, there is an infinity to give.

I will toast to that. And I thank psychedelics and meditation, among other things, for helping me see not what I need, but what I have, so I can give without fear of getting empty.

yes, you understand me then. a toast indeed, to the eternal abundance.

pour a drink out for our homies that become casualties of life, and die thinking the ocean could use a glass of water. in the end after all, win or lose, it is just cruel chance, and king solomon is worth no more then a drunk homeless person - in terms of meat.

 

[Pandora]

Abrazaderas,

Welcome to the Nexus. Other than mutual amusement, may I ask what brings you here?

Have you tried DMT yet? If so, smoked or oral doses?

Have you taken a good look around at the subfora here as well as the links in the upper right hand page of your Forum pages? So much good stuff to be found there by folks who took the time to write it out accurately and in a caring manner.

I hope you have fun as that mainly appears (from my view) to be your goal and there's nothing at all wrong with that.

Again, a warm welcome to you.

 

[Abrazaderas]

thanks! yah, i bought 2 kilos of mhrb a while back and did everything that can be done with dmt except mainlining it, obviously i'm not going to inject basement manufactured drugs. i did the entire yield myself after six pulls, in every form and color and method and dosage you can think of, and then combined with every drug available. i really liked it.