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Is it me?

N

newname

Rising Star
Howdy,

Ive gone down the path of obtaining material and performing a popular STB tek extraction more than a few times and I have to say that the results are quite underwhelming. The materials alone not counting any equipment or time was in the hundreds of dollars and after many hours of risking exposure to dangerous chemicals not to mention potential legal risks I am left with what might be equivolent to a couple of 510 vapes that I could have purchased for 1/5 of the amount I put into this but the stuff I extracted is of a much lower quality and mediocre potency at best. Sure I can tell its there. There is a familiar smell and taste and if I take 5 or six long pulls without gagging myself and hold them in until I am about to burst, I can get a decent trip for a few minutes. The carts I purchase have me tripping hard for 15 minutes from a single hit.

Hopefully someone will come along and tell me how wrong I am because i was really excited about doing this but now that I am on the other side it feels like it was a huge waste of money, time and risk for basically no payoff.

I'm guessing that if anyone else has had the same experience they are probably no longer on the forum to discuss it.

Anyone else experience the same?
 
newname,

Welcome to the Nexus.

I don't know if you've had a chance to review the Attitude link above but be ready for moderators to redact parts of your post.

I personally use Noman's Straight to Base DMT for the Masses.

My yields are usually 1 to 2 percent.

If you're getting in that range then all is as it should be but if you're getting it a lot lower then maybe try a different TEK, maybe try following the directions more precisely or maybe your root bark is weak. Perhaps try a different vendor.

I wish you an easier path to extraction and greater yields and again welcome you.
 
Bummer dude!

I am a novice painter. I would love to paint on a higher level. I sometimes think if I had better paints or brushes, then I could paint better art. But that is not true, I could give my paints and brushes to a accomplished artist and they would create something wonderful with them.

You have all the tools for extractions. Expand your understanding through further research. Try enjoying the learning process, experiment, find what works for you. My first couple extractions were not great, it was disappointing. Start with smaller extractions, work out the steps you will be using and keep notes until you start receiving the results that you desire. I found that even though it was disappointing at first, I did learn enjoy the whole process. I even had the thought, 'I should have been a chemist.' Extractions and chemistry can be very fun and rewarding.

In the end here it could be that you do in fact have some weak bark. I would consider that weak bark to be the perfect opportunity to practice extractions, experiment and just get better at it.

Stick with it I say. You are creating your own medicine. Do it with love and patience.

I do love my extractions. It is medicine in my book.

I make it a ritual of sorts. I like to use sage to smudge myself and area I am working. I talk to my extractions, I place my intent and love into them. I even play nice music for the extraction and myself. I create a good space. I hold space and keep that space all the way through the process.

I did not approach it this way at first, the whole process evolved over time.
 
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Thanks for the response. I do not beleive that talking to my extraction is going to increase the yield but maybe I'm wrong. I do feel like I have done a substantial amount of research given I have read dozens of research papers published on the topic of alkaloid extraction and I have performed various other extractions in the past. It is possible that my starting material has a low content of active alkaloids but there is no way for me verify this and obtaining more [difficult - NO SOURCING!] and [another time I] never received the product. The current material I have [been OK but] again I have no way to validate the quality of the material outside of performing the extraction tek and seeing the yield.

As an example, I started a new batch using 150 grams of unused powder, mixed it into a saline solution of 750ML, adjustd the PH to 12 using lye. Then I placed the container onto a pnuematic shaker and allowed to agitate for 4 hours. Then I added 75ML of new 100% VM&P naptha. The container was manually flipped and agitated 8 times over the course of 4 hours. The solvent was removed and left to evaporate. What was left was enough residue to make a 1:1 mixture with 5 DROPS of propylene glycol. So I ended up with just over 10 drops of product which is enough to fill a 510 cartridge about 1/20th of the way. Even then it was barely effective. How is this possible?

One question I have is whether it is possible to do this in an environment that is 95F and higher as I live in an area where the tempuratures are pretty high.

Does anyone have info on extracting from MHRB using an ION exchange resin?
 
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I have another question about extractions from MHRB, once the alkasloids have been conveted to a freebase and are dissolved in a solvent, is it possible to convert it back to salt form before drying the solvent? Every other extraction I have performed involved extracting materials in salt form and it feels like attempting to extract a material in its freebase for is more difficult. If hydrogen chlorise gas was bubbled through the solvent containing freebase in a colum, would the salt for precipitate from and remain insoluable in the solvent? Could the precipitate be colected, dried then conveted back to a freebase via a reaction in an aqueous ammonia solution?
 
I'm no chemist but DMT extraction is simple. Your process seems kind of complex for some reason.

The one thing that immediately caught my eye was your sentence on flipping and agitating 8 times over 4 hours then you evapped the solvent.

I wonder if you took a more methodical approach, as detailed in Noman's TEK, if it would help? Specifically, once the non polar solvent is added and the vessel is sealed, I personally sit with it, rocking it back and forth and rotate it upside down, VERY GENTLY for several minutes while speaking my personal mantra out loud as an intention toward the final product. I do this manually (using hands). Then I let the vessel sit for several minutes until distinct and visible separation occurs. Then I sit with it, rocking it back and forth . . . . I do this at LEAST 4 times BEFORE removing solvent. Once the 4th separation has occurred I separate out the solvent and hold it aside then add FRESH solvent to the vessel, sit with it, rocking it back and forth . . . . . for 4 repetitions. I do this entire procedure 4 times.

So there are 4 additions of solvent, with 4 gentle rockings and separations for each. THIS is the point I combine the solvent, evaporate off 50%, then transfer to a small, sealed jar, and move it to the back of my freezer (which I do not open until I'm ready to remove the snow globe) for 8-72 hours (personally I like 36}.

I have a trustworthy bark vendor. This works every single time.
 
newname said:
Thanks for the response. I do not beleive that talking to my extraction is going to increase the yield but maybe I'm wrong. I do feel like I have done a substantial amount of research given I have read dozens of research papers published on the topic of alkaloid extraction and I have performed various other extractions in the past. It is possible that my starting material has a low content of active alkaloids but there is no way for me verify this and obtaining more is expensive and risky, the first order I made which cost me over $250 USD I was scammed and lost the money and never received the product. The current material I have was purchased from what I thought was a reputable supplier again I have no way to validate the quality of the material outside of performing the extraction tek and seeing the yield.

As an example, I started a new batch using 150 grams of unused powder, mixed it into a saline solution of 750ML, adjustd the PH to 12 using lye. Then I placed the container onto a pnuematic shaker and allowed to agitate for 4 hours. Then I added 75ML of new 100% VM&P naptha. The container was manually flipped and agitated 8 times over the course of 4 hours. The solvent was removed and left to evaporate. What was left was enough residue to make a 1:1 mixture with 5 DROPS of propylene glycol. So I ended up with just over 10 drops of product which is enough to fill a 510 cartridge about 1/20th of the way. Even then it was barely effective. How is this possible?

One question I have is whether it is possible to do this in an environment that is 95F and higher as I live in an area where the tempuratures are pretty high.

Does anyone have info on extracting from MHRB using an ION exchange resin?
Click to expand...
Hey, from what you’ve described, I think your technique is the main reason you’re getting such a low yield. In most cases people use a ratio of about 1 part bark to roughly 15 parts water, then add an equal weight of lye to the bark amount. After that the general guideline is to use about the same number of milliliters of naphtha as the number of grams of bark you are extracting from, and to repeat that pull at least three times, sometimes even four, to make sure you recover most of the alkaloids. Once you have done the pulls, the combined naphtha is placed in the freezer to precipitate the crystals.

If you follow that approach I think you will see a much better yield. It is also worth starting smaller, say 50 g of MHRB, so you can troubleshoot and perfect the process before scaling up.

Right now your water amount, lye ratio and number of pulls are all lower than what is usually recommended, which is likely why the yield is so small.

Good luck, ow and if you still have the basic soup from your previous attempts you can easily add more water and base to get the ratios I mentioned. You would have a good chance of getting a decent yield.
 
Thanks for the information.

So when you are saying that for 150 grams of root bark one should use:
600 ML of naptha?
150 grams of of lye?

That sounds a little bit excessive so I wanted to double check. More than half a liter of solvent to extract a gram of material?
 
newname said:
Does anyone have info on extracting from MHRB using an ION exchange resin?
Click to expand...
I've run analytical samples (of Phalaris extracts and not MHRB, but still containing DMT) on MCX SPE cartridges with good recovery. I guess a similar solid phase would work at preparative scale too, though it would be very expensive.

I also tried strong acid cation resin of the type used for water treatment, PS-DVB with sulfonic acid groups. I was easily able to get ~90% of the alkaloids onto the beads, but unable to practically get them off. My most effective conditions were sufficient methanol to cover the beads, with 2% by volume concentrated ammonia to make basic, and even that yielded only ~15% per pull. It's possible that better conditions exist, or that a column would work better than my stirred beaker.

I don't wish to discourage anyone from exotic method development, but most such attempts will fail. It's especially challenging without analytical facilities. For example, without the ability to test my initial aqueous extract, I'd have known my extraction had failed, but not whether the alkaloids were still in the water, or stuck to the beads, or simply never present in the plant.

I agree with the advice above to start by closely following a method where others report success. Note that the lye here serves both to adjust pH and to degrade the plant material to mechanically expose the alkaloids to the solvent. The latter purpose requires a lot more lye than the former.

Naphtha is one of the weaker nonpolar solvents, so many pulls will be required. I made some measurements here, and linked a Brazilian paper with surprisingly different numbers but a similar ranking. Solvents can often be reused if not evaporated.
 
newname said:
I do feel like I have done a substantial amount of research given I have read dozens of research papers published on the topic of alkaloid extraction and I have performed various other extractions in the past.
Click to expand...
But have you checked the true and tried teks on the dmt-nexus? That is your best bet for good results

I second Varallo's recommendation of inceasing the water to bark ratio. Here's an example of more than doubling in yield just by using half the amount of bark.
 
ummmm... pick the simplest STB Tek ,STB= (Straight to base ) like Normans tek ,
follow it to the " T " no Inspector Gadget deveations ,
save everything incase it needs a redo ...perhaps
and as others stated do 50gram batches a few times to learn as others recomended,
But first read safety proticals
 
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