Is There any way to convert fumerate to acetate?

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

SWIM has Some nice fumerates lying around and in light of q21q21s experimentation with heating acetates to yield freebase, Swim Would Like to know How to unlock the spice from the salt to try this heating procedure. Swim Has had horrible luck freebasing with sodium carbonate. Even though Swim Followed Amor_fati's Tek, Once the dry freebased material is submerged in anhydrous acetone, the results were, well little to nothing. Swim is hoping acetates are perhaps an easier gateway.
any help would be appreciated.:?:

 

[amor_fati]

What tek? Drytek conversion? What results are you referring to? A little more info on the details of SWIY's process would be helpful.

 

[ThirdEyeVision]

My friend just had to do it for the tincture.
Mix equal parts sodium carbonate and DMT Fumarate in a morter and pestle and powderize it.
Pour into small beaker and drop water on until a paste consistency.
Watch it bubble and let sit for 10 or 15 then toss in dehydrator until bone dry.
Pour in enough anhydrous acetone to cover a bit and stir the piss out of it.
Let decant and pull acetone with dropper put on drying plate.
Do the acetone pull 4 times or until clear.
Dry the combined acetone pulls and you have freebase.

Works everytime.

 

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

as for amor fati, I did not use the dry tek, where a swim mixes the sodium carbonate and the fumerate with anhydrous magnesium, Swim Would just use the sodium carbonate and a bit of water, Swim Would Make sure the material was sufficiently dry, the ace was left on the material for almost 15 minutes, A bit of stiring was indeed prefomed, however, it would seem the ace would become cloudy with particulates that did not seem to be spice but from what Swim Believed to be a bit of sodium carbonate. Swim Only preformed one pull. the material that was evaped does not seem to correlate with the remains that is left with other Swiys posts. Whew.

 

[ThirdEyeVision]

If done correctly a honey like dmt freebase should be left, it dries waxy eventualy.
If acetone is not anhydrous sodium carbonate will be carried over.

 

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

Your Posts have been of much help, thank you, However, it is a possibility that the ace is not completely anhydrous, It is 99% And then SWIM mixed in the anhydrous magnesium (rendered from epsom salt.) The Color of Swims Anhydrous Mag is a light grey or off white after rendering. Is this correct?
Swim Left The Epsom in the oven on 400F for like 3 hours... Edit, After looking at the results og the ace recrystalization SWim Tried last night. The results are a petri dish that has a flat off white material left in the dish, although it is thick it is not gooey or crystalline at all. It just seems like moist sodium carb or magnesium. Swim Could post a pic. Somehow SWim has gone through a whole can of acetone..

 

[ThirdEyeVision]

That acetone should be plenty dry then. All my friend does is pour anhydrous magnesium sulphate in a wine bottle then pours in acetone, cork it and shake shake shake. And stores it until need.

Your procedure is correct and should work. Has the DMT Fumarate been tested? Maybe there was a messup when making it....

 

[amor_fati]

I did not use the dry tek, where a swim mixes the sodium carbonate and the fumerate with anhydrous magnesium, Swim Would just use the sodium carbonate and a bit of water, Swim Would Make sure the material was sufficiently dry, the ace was left on the material for almost 15 minutes, A bit of stiring was indeed prefomed, however, it would seem the ace would become cloudy with particulates that did not seem to be spice but from what Swim Believed to be a bit of sodium carbonate. Swim Only preformed one pull. the material that was evaped does not seem to correlate with the remains that is left with other Swiys posts. Whew.

Acetone should not be used without drytek procedures. SWIM's drytek could generally dry the acetone simply with an excess of anhydrous MgSO4 in THP, but SWIM would recommend drying the acetone prior to use. Any particulates present in the acetone would be sodium carbonate, sodium fumuarate, or MgSO4, dissolved actives result in clear yellow acetone when particulates are filtered out (thus the use of THP). Multiple pulls are generally preferable to ensure total exhaustion of the material as well as determining when to stop pulling.

It's no good using dried acetone if you don't dry the material that's being pulled. Also, fumarates should be purified prior to conversion if SWIY wants to determine the outcome of conversion, otherwise, it shouldn't make a difference in the process.

 

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

SWims tek consisted of Well ground bark simmered in a crockpot with water and vinegar, Then based with pickling lime, pulled with warm D-limonene, Then Salted with fasw.The limonene Would be a dark pee pee color, when Shaken with the fasw, A kind of sparse jelly would be floating at the top of the fasw, between the limonene and water. This material would range in colors as Swim made continuous pulls,and Less and less of this material was present at the last pulls...
This water and this material was then put into a dehydrator until dry and It yielded a floral spice like smell.

Amor_fati has suggested using a thp filter to remove the suspended particulates floating in the acetone.. SWIm have tried to use coffee filters with acetone, it worked but appeared to absorb some liquid.. SO in concusion of the acetone, other than drying it as SWIm as done a filtering need to be done. Cant a Swimmer wait for the particulates to settle than use a pipette to siphon the acetone or would that be a pain in the arse?

Lastly, Does the account of what SWims fumurate is like in aqueous form sound accurate? Swim has never seen a pic on this forum of this specific separation phase, and without a visual account Swim has to just use the force to decide if What Swim has Is indeed a lot of Fumeurate.. SWim hates to buy acetone, But they will reacquire in the morn and try this again..
PS Does the pre water purification of Fumeurate a la buffoman affect the recrystallization outcome of is it a step used to determine a more accurate weight? sorry for the gaggle of questions!!

 

[amor_fati]

Amor_fati has suggested using a thp filter to remove the suspended particulates floating in the acetone.. SWIm have tried to use coffee filters with acetone, it worked but appeared to absorb some liquid.. SO in concusion of the acetone, other than drying it as SWIm as done a filtering need to be done. Cant a Swimmer wait for the particulates to settle than use a pipette to siphon the acetone or would that be a pain in the arse?

THP w/ cottone is the only thing that's worked sufficiently for SWIM. The filter will soak up acetone, but that's part of the point of doing multiple washes, plus THP allows repeated flushes without changing filters. SWIM used to decant carefully and would always get particulates in the product, but those never made much difference in the outcome; SWIM only switched to THP for simplicity and for purity of his product.

Lastly, Does the account of what SWims fumurate is like in aqueous form sound accurate? Swim has never seen a pic on this forum of this specific separation phase, and without a visual account Swim has to just use the force to decide if What Swim has Is indeed a lot of Fumeurate.. SWim hates to buy acetone, But they will reacquire in the morn and try this again..

SWIM's never found the appearance of the extraction phases to be considerable indicators. SWIM merely feels out his process: If the stirring of the basified material in limonene feels sufficient, it's sufficient. If the shaking of the FASW with limonene feels sufficient, it's sufficient. SWIM does use color as an indicator in conversion and purification (as in with bufoman's, yes). He also stopped using acetone some time ago and only performs nontoxic conversion.

PS Does the pre water purification of Fumeurate a la buffoman affect the recrystallization outcome of is it a step used to determine a more accurate weight?

For drytek conversion? Not likely. SWIM would have to say no, as he never used to purify but with acetone and had no problems.

 

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

Thank you for the reply amor_, The work that swiy has paved in the way of nontoxic conversion is the reason SWIM decided to take the plunge to mine spice in the first place, hence the limonene and lime. However SWIm ANd their cohorts have only experienced spice that was drytek and in a waxy/crystallized form, although potent, Probably not the best for a swimmers body(although that is up for debate by others.) SWim is eager to recreate a final spice reminiscent of the last with the exception of it being "cleaner" for the last was surely made with lye. Back to the tek at hand, SWim took the unfiltered acetone pulls, now dry, and submerged it in warm nalpha. Swim was out of acetone at the time. Swim was trying to separate the junk from the spice. As swim has read the spice would disperse in the nalpha and begin to cloud as room temperature, then one would pop this in the freezer until crystals from. Well nothing happened, Which makes SWIm believe the 9 or so grams of fumeurate has no spice in it. SWim cannot figure out what could be going on. Between amor_fati's nontoxic tek and q21q21 's the info is pretty straight forward. SWim as been at it for a month... Swim has not thrown out any bark though no matter how depleted it seems, and SWim does not want to prep anymore until they are sure to fix the problem..:?

 

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

Also, you are saying there is no visual indication of spice in the fasw? Swim doesn't get it. what about when washing the limonene in vinegar? Swim tried this last night and indeed there was some material in between these layers. The limonene was dark colored and had no foreign particles or bark, So If there is no visual indication that the spice is moving between layers, Then Swim has wasted a gallon on limonene... over the couse of a month of course. This fasw was collected many times and evaporated. is there a way to turn it into acetate to see if it is real? It would be easy to heat up this acetate and see if any freebase appears, SWim as already wasted too much of this supposed fumeurate by manually freebasing or drytek

 

[amor_fati]

SWIM's not saying that there isn't a visual indication, just that he's never used it. SWIM's honestly never had an instance where he didn't get product from a pull, and he's pretty good at not using too much acid on limonene washes from fairly depleted bark; he doesn't like to waste time evaping water containing no product, so he makes sure to get it all in the few pulls he performs. SWIM also doesn't worry much about emulsions with nontoxic approaches, but somehow he never has to deal with much in the first place. SWIM doesn't specify visual indicators in his tek, because he doesn't use them.

SWIM really can't say much about the results of SWIY's naphtha pull, due to the lack of information. When SWIM used to use naphtha, he would use warmed naphtha and evaporate over a steam bath to reduce the volume, prior to freeze-preciping; precipitation would occur within hours.

SWIM is honestly having a hard time deciphering what the problem is, here. The best advice he can give is that what SWIY has is his material, his process, and his product. SWIM doesn't understand the doubt regarding the authenticity of SWIY's product, as SWIM's process is such that he can account for the product every step of the way and whip it into whatever form he likes to administer it in whatever way he pleases.

SWIM would like to help more, but the details of SWIY's process are scant and hard to follow. The very best indicator of the yield is to know exactly how much fumaric acid was used in FASW, then compare the weight of the final product to that amount; the weight will be the yield. SWIM doesn't know why alcohol was used in the extraction, and it almost sound like SWIY thinks that the emulsions (frothy layer between FASW and limonene) are the product? The fumarate product is dissolved in the entire water layer, and the emulsion are nothing more than bubbles.


Try this: Take the limonene pulls, shake vigorously with FASW until SWIY can't shake anymore, pop the whole thing in the freezer, once the bottom layer freezes solid, pour off the limonene, thaw the FASW, pour off leaving the excess fumaric acid behind, evaporate the water. If this doesn't yield a product, the problem is one of these things: Inadequate stirring of material in limonene, inadequate consistency/basicity of the source material, alcohol is holding onto the freebase.

 

[Phyrexian Spicenaut]

Thank you for the detailed response, in regard to the alcohol, it was used in later batches prep the bark, ( a la spicemans tek for large scale extractions) on the small level. These batches were steeped in a warm alcohol bath and then thoroughly dried before adding pickling lime. Swim is sure ther was no alcohol present once limonene was added.

The fasw was rendered with warm water and a couple of pinches of fumaric acid( Swim does not have a powder scale) so a more precise incriment of added fumaric is not known. However it seems that very little would be needed for say 200ml of water. The bark mush was stirred in a heated mhrb mush with limonene sometimes for up to an hour whilst stirring often. leaving that perhaps swim has not based enough with the pickling lime.Yet Swim has used it in a 2 to 1 ratio with the bark,and a bit of water makiing it the consistancy of cookie dough. If a swimmer were to take this dough and roll it into a ball, would this sound like the right consistency?


Also the material that is floating or dispersing in the fasw dosent appear to be bubbles, while stirring or shaking this material begins to appear and stays, even after freezing or sitting. That is Why SWim thought this material was spice. More limonene is coming tomorrow. Swim could prep another batch of bark.. lastly after freezing the fasw, then thawing, the fumaric settles at the bottom of the jar? SWim has never witnessed this.

 

[amor_fati]

If a swimmer were to take this dough and roll it into a ball, would this sound like the right consistency?

Should be. Thorough stirring and even consistency and moistening is the key. This is difficult to describe, just realize that every molecule of DMT in the bark must come in contact with water and lime in order to convert into a base for extraction.

Also the material that is floating or dispersing in the fasw dosent appear to be bubbles, while stirring or shaking this material begins to appear and stays, even after freezing or sitting. That is Why SWim thought this material was spice.

Well the spice fumarate will not precipitate out of water, as it's quite soluble. SWIM's emulsions have generally been a bit frothy, thus, bubbles. Emulsions aren't anything special, just occasionally troublesome.

lastly after freezing the fasw, then thawing, the fumaric settles at the bottom of the jar? SWim has never witnessed this.

Fumaric acid is not incredibly soluble in water and reducing temperature makes it even less soluble. If there is any excess fumaric acid, most of it will settle as the temperature of the water drops and will remain settled upon thawing if the temperature doesn't get too high or if the mixture isn't disturbed too much.


SWIM wouldn't recommend going the fumaric acid route without a scale. Acetates would likely be a more adequate route for SWIY.