An interesting interview with Jeremy Narby about the Dark Side of Shamanism and Psychedelics:
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Jeremy Narby - Cosmic Serpents & The Dark Side of Shamanism
- Thread starter sgtWow
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Thanks! I enjoyed this intervew..
One thing that bothers me though is how he refers to dark shamanism or sorcery etc as "witchcraft"..I think a prof anthropologist should be beyond these sort of mis-lables at this point. I wrote a paper about this when I was studying anthropology in college because the same thing came up.."witchcraft" has NOTHING at all to do with amazonian shamanism and so describing the darker practices of natives who use ayahuasca as "witchcraft" is just bad anthropology in my opinion. I sort of feel the same way about how the word brujo is used..brujo is spanish and does not directly relate to how the term has been adopted in south america..
Witchcraft is not an evil practice, nor does it seek to harm others any more than any ayahuasca practice of the amazon..the church just demonized witchcraft and so people like to make the distinction between curranderos as "good", and then they call the "bad" ones witches..
The term "witch" translates to "hedgerider", refering to someone who has a foot in both worlds and who often lives on the edge or just outside of the village near the "hedge"..I wish anthropology would just get all this in order and stop muddying up the reality of all of this. It is like stepping all over an entire tradition.
I am finshed ranting now
One thing that bothers me though is how he refers to dark shamanism or sorcery etc as "witchcraft"..I think a prof anthropologist should be beyond these sort of mis-lables at this point. I wrote a paper about this when I was studying anthropology in college because the same thing came up.."witchcraft" has NOTHING at all to do with amazonian shamanism and so describing the darker practices of natives who use ayahuasca as "witchcraft" is just bad anthropology in my opinion. I sort of feel the same way about how the word brujo is used..brujo is spanish and does not directly relate to how the term has been adopted in south america..
Witchcraft is not an evil practice, nor does it seek to harm others any more than any ayahuasca practice of the amazon..the church just demonized witchcraft and so people like to make the distinction between curranderos as "good", and then they call the "bad" ones witches..
The term "witch" translates to "hedgerider", refering to someone who has a foot in both worlds and who often lives on the edge or just outside of the village near the "hedge"..I wish anthropology would just get all this in order and stop muddying up the reality of all of this. It is like stepping all over an entire tradition.
I am finshed ranting now
I think it's all terminology now ?
though it's true that the dichotomy is maybe too simple: healer vs brujo/witchcraft as white magic vs black magic
some might not be healer but do good, as diviners or smt
Also maybe some do neutral thing.
It' true that witches are the shamanic system from here too, and they were also healing poeple and doing orgy. HMmm semantics...
though it's true that the dichotomy is maybe too simple: healer vs brujo/witchcraft as white magic vs black magic
some might not be healer but do good, as diviners or smt
Also maybe some do neutral thing.
It' true that witches are the shamanic system from here too, and they were also healing poeple and doing orgy. HMmm semantics...
it is all semantics..but it is the same as how some south american ayahuasceros do not like being called shamans because they are curranderos..calling a healing currandero a shaman though is closer to the truth than calling some "evil" or dark ayahuascero a witch..I dunno I just heard this so often in college and it really got annoying.
I just see it as a continuation of backwards christian ideals, something that needs to die. This kind of misuse of terminology continues a line of cultural ignorance..and it only serves to greater alienate another group of people and creat more confusion around who they really are.
What I am saying is that it is a stereotype that I would expect a cultural anthropologist to not perpetuate.
I just see it as a continuation of backwards christian ideals, something that needs to die. This kind of misuse of terminology continues a line of cultural ignorance..and it only serves to greater alienate another group of people and creat more confusion around who they really are.
What I am saying is that it is a stereotype that I would expect a cultural anthropologist to not perpetuate.
:surprised Jamie, I see your point really.
I don't like poeple calling everything shamanism, cause it makes everything looks very hazy, hocus pocus, even more someone who just like to tryp on aya or mushrooms says he does shamanism. But in fact it always depends what you put as value behind each word. you always need to ask this person (i.e. here jeremy narby) what he means (himself) when using shamanism and witchcraft etc...
so you're sure you don't have different perspective of the same meaning. It's what you have to do when starting philosophy.
Anyway, I woudn't attack jeremy narby personally for he does a great job, at propagating more acceptable mainstream view of the phenomen. Of course if you're really presonnally invested to this subject it could sound simple. but what he does is vulgarazition I believe.
He doesn't really speak to you or me :twisted: , or not anymore.
I don't like poeple calling everything shamanism, cause it makes everything looks very hazy, hocus pocus, even more someone who just like to tryp on aya or mushrooms says he does shamanism. But in fact it always depends what you put as value behind each word. you always need to ask this person (i.e. here jeremy narby) what he means (himself) when using shamanism and witchcraft etc...
so you're sure you don't have different perspective of the same meaning. It's what you have to do when starting philosophy.
Anyway, I woudn't attack jeremy narby personally for he does a great job, at propagating more acceptable mainstream view of the phenomen. Of course if you're really presonnally invested to this subject it could sound simple. but what he does is vulgarazition I believe.
He doesn't really speak to you or me :twisted: , or not anymore.
I dont have anything against Jeremy Narby, I like his work. What I am referring to is something that I have seen across the board..it was even in the textbook for one of my classes called "magic, religion and witchcraft"..what a horrid textbook that was! talk about cliche...
yeah Michael Harner did a lot of weird damage to the term "shamanism" imo..even going far enough as to call psychedelic shamanism a degraded form of shamanism or something..
yeah Michael Harner did a lot of weird damage to the term "shamanism" imo..even going far enough as to call psychedelic shamanism a degraded form of shamanism or something..
Hahah yeah, I've been told this. Or not even about shamanism, but like those who use power-plant are inferior and cheat those who don't use them and are more evolved.
Have you heard stuff like that ? for exemple ayahuasca work isn't a right path, you need to work on meditaion like a straight head etc...
I think it's all church's fight in my opinion, though as a psychedelic user, I always tell poeple they do'nt need to do it if they d'nt feel like. Maybe what I gain from it, won't gain to them etc...
Have you heard stuff like that ? for exemple ayahuasca work isn't a right path, you need to work on meditaion like a straight head etc...
I think it's all church's fight in my opinion, though as a psychedelic user, I always tell poeple they do'nt need to do it if they d'nt feel like. Maybe what I gain from it, won't gain to them etc...