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Knocked out on rue & mushrooms

W

Washing Bear

Rising Star
Hey everybody,

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

Yesterday i combined 3g rue seeds (tea) with 3,5g dried mushrooms (lemon tek)
The come-up was quite strong so decided to lay down.
After exploring hyperspace for, lets say, 30 minutes/1 hour, I passed out.
Then i suddenly got 'thrown out' about 2 hours after eating the mushroom.
I took a piss and tried to get back to where i was, but was not able to..
Then i wanted to do some shamanic work, but the rue made me so heavy I was not able to get up.
So i spend a few hours lingering and eventually went into 'normal' sleep.

So my question to y'all travellers in here;
Is there a way to counteract this harmala-heavyness?
I was thinking maybe a small dose of lsd could help with energy levels, but then it might be hard to sleep afterwards..
In general I really like the quality of maoi + mushrooms, but I would prefer better memorization.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Also when combining lsd and mushrooms, is it possible to take the lsd in the afternoon (around 14:00) and then the fungi later (20:00)
or is there too much cross-tolerance for 5g to be 5g?

sending love and happiness to all
 
I haven't yet tried mushrooms with rue but here are some notes on taking harmalas which might help.

You can reduce the quantity of rue you use down to 2g and see if that helps. You'll still definitely get potentiation I would say because psilocybin doesn't need maoi to inhibit breakdown.

Tea is usually a bit less intense than capping crushed seeds and eating them but ime extracted harmalas are gentler again while still having a kick so you could do a rue extraction that subdues the sedatedness for me. The benefit of this is you also get more of an idea on how much you're taking (not taking into consideration the exact ratios of the different harmalas). Whereas there will be more variation of what 3g of seed will do to you ime.

Ps: also agree with modern, a lot of the body load of rue subsides with regular dosage.
 
modern said:
Take the rue for a few days so your body gets 'use' to the effects. Some suffer from other counter effects like the runs or nausea. Taking a dose a few days in a row before your experience seems to reduce these effects.
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thanks, would 2 or 3 days be enough? and I could take just a little bit then? lets say 1,5g or even less?
also would there be a difference if i take b.caapi instead of rue?
tempted to just take the mushroom by itself, but i have only enough to break through once, I think twice should be possible with maoi assistance
 
Washing Bear said:
thanks, would 2 or 3 days be enough? and I could take just a little bit then? lets say 1,5g or even less?
also would there be a difference if i take b.caapi instead of rue?
tempted to just take the mushroom by itself, but i have only enough to break through once, I think twice should be possible with maoi assistance
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Yes no need to take large doses 2-3 days should help reduce some of the negative effects.

Personally I prefer caapi and take 200mg harmala tea daily rue is more nausea inducing. Maybe consider extracting with mansake? Caapi is the cheapest option for me. If Rue is best option for you stick to that.
 
modern said:
Yes no need to take large doses 2-3 days should help reduce some of the negative effects.

Personally I prefer caapi and take 200mg harmala tea daily rue is more nausea inducing. Maybe consider extracting with mansake? Caapi is the cheapest option for me. If Rue is best option for you stick to that.
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How much raw caapi would you use for 200mg harmala? I have about 100g sitting in a jar somewhere, used some to make changa a few years ago, didnt really work out.
 
Hi !
Washing Bear said:
Yesterday i combined 3g rue seeds (tea) with 3,5g dried mushrooms (lemon tek)
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Unless they are very weak, 3,5g dry shrooms is quite a strong dose with rue potentiation. It corresponds more or less to 7g without rue. It is maybe an explanation for the passing out/black out you experienced. I usually have strong enough experiences with just 2g shrooms + rue. Maybe try a lower shrooms dose if you don't want to be overwhelmed and want to keep memory track.
Washing Bear said:
Is there a way to counteract this harmala-heavyness?
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IMO it's hard to avoid the sedative/heavyness effects of such a combo. Rue is sedative in itself, mushrooms are mildly sedative too, both potentiating each an other. Maybe some caffeine might help ? Just be aware rue will potentiate it too so go lower than usual with the dose.
Animistic said:
Tea is usually a bit less intense than capping crushed seeds and eating them
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That's what I read a lot, that's what I thought too, but definitely not what I experienced. Eaten ground seeds were quite underwhelming compared to rue tea at equal dose with same seeds batch. I did a month of testing alternating tea/capsules. I suspect that with tea molecules are better assimilated/absorbed by the body than when the body has to separate them from the seeds first. The rise is quicker too with tea, I can feel first effects from 20-30 minutes while it takes at least 1 hour for first effects when I ingest seeds. When I tried ground seeds with vaped DMT, MAO inhibition was weaker, DMT trips were shorter than with tea. At the end, of course, these differences in feelings with tea vs capsules depend on how tea is made. Some make it weak (short simmering), some make it strong (long boil). In my experience, strong tea > ingested seeds.

Peace :)
 
Washing Bear said:
How much raw caapi would you use for 200mg harmala? I have about 100g sitting in a jar somewhere, used some to make changa a few years ago, didnt really work out.
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Depends on the strength of that batch. I brew a few kg at once and test 60mg of the tea adding sodium carbonate to have a good estimate on the amount I need to drink. I'd say 50-100g could be 1-4 doses hard to tell really.
 
I would recommend to use caapi (in form of extracted alkaloids) as a base for psilohuasca, imo it is more compatible with shrooms than rue.
 
@Washing Bear Both mushrooms and harmalas potentiate each other in a way that is more than additive.

In my experience, a fully inhibitory dose of harmalas (which you were likely at or nearly upon) will potentiate mushrooms by about 5x.

Likewise, to work with harmalas as a supporting cast member with a full dose of mushrooms, I would cut harmalas back to about a third.

These are the two ratios at which I get the most productive experiences, "productive" in that they feel super similar to Ayahuasca, which is usually what I'm going for. Adding harmalas, especially a lot of them, turns the experience more inward, and dulls the "let's go outside in nature and explore!" aspect that I get from mushrooms alone.

You'll have to experiment :cool: Let us know how it goes!

The other thing to bear in mind is that the intensity of an experience with Rue curves sharply upward as you increase the dose, and some people get bad headaches and other unpleasant side effects if they take Rue gratuitously beyond what is required for inhibition (though everyone has different MAO metabolism rates so can't give a one size fits all number). Caapi is way more forgiving in this respect, or purified harmalas might work better if you keep running into issues with bodyload.
 
I have a strong tolerance to caapi.

After developing this, from rather heavy use of the vine, the effect of caapi changed for me. Now it mostly causes a nicotine-like sensation. It reminds me more of high dose nicotine than anything else. I find it rather unpleasant.

I used to get visuals and euphoria from vine only brew. I haven't experienced them for a long time now. Upping the dose just causes the same effects as nicotine for me, heavy body sensation, dizziness and nausea.

People report reverse tolerance to harmala alkaloids but that didn't happen for me. Drinking caapi often has made it easier to tolerate larger doses, but they don't do nearly as much as they once did.

Now when I strongly increase the dose I get a hangover that makes me feel pretty unwell for about a half a week or so.
 
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