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life is a trip

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DavidB

DavidB

Rising Star
I'm not very experienced with psychedelics, as I have only ever experimented with the occasional smoke of THC. (Once every year or 2) I can't say I really enjoyed this experience very much, which explains why I only really did it occasionally, when curiosity got the better of me and I had forgotten how much I don't really enjoy it.

The problem I find with THC, is that it seems to open my awareness up to too much, too quickly to knowledge and information all at once, which becomes overwhelming, causing me to feel panicked, feeling as though I'll lose control, lose my mind.

I do enjoy the information and knowledge, most of it I find to be quite profound, but I do not enjoy being overwhelmed.

To place things into some perspective. I'm 41 years of age. I experienced a full blown panic attack was when I was 21. This panic attack shattered my world view so significantly and completely, anything that reminds me of that experience can potentially trigger it all over again, to some extent. I haven't had the panic attacks for at least 6 years now though, thankfully, but the feelings that I experience when stoned, those overwhelming feelings of too much too quickly, in so many ways, remind me of what I experienced when I used to have panic attacks.

Let me try to explain. I have gathered from chatting to others that have experienced panic attacks, that my panic attacks differ quite significantly from the norm. For example, my panic leaves me feeling as though the world has been shattered and shredded into oblivion, resembling something more akin to everything in existence being run through a blender and then suspended in a void of infinite emptiness. The feelings of sheer unadulterated terror and confusion are beyond description.

So thus far, my first and only encounters with the void, with emptiness, have been extremely negative and painful, with smatterings of profound knoweldge and information. Interestingly enough however, all negativity and painfulness aside, so many of the psychedelic experiences I have read, resonate with what I learned from my experiences. It may seem very odd that such a comparison might be made, but not really all that odd when we consider that what I experience and what the psychedelic tripper experiences, are both journeys into internal universes.

I'm convinced that what I experienced was nothing more than a spontaneous awakening from unconsciousness, into a realisation that nothing is real, that all things are merely dreams or illusions. It was this spontaneous awakening that shattered my world and made me miss-perceive the void as a hostile, indifferent and confusing torture chamber.

I understand now though, after many years of contemplation, meditation and inner searching, that consciousness can manifest into whatever form is necessary. Consciousness has an infinite form potentiality, in other words, all form arises out of consciousness. Consciousness though, having no inherent form itself, is emptiness, void of form, ironically.

From Mahayana Buddhism we get the phrase, "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form, one source, not two." - Prajna Paramita Hridaya Sutra (Heart Sutra)

This phrase epitomises what I experienced when my ego suddenly collapsed into oblivion and my self deluded world collapse around me. At the time though, I was so overwhelmed with what I was experiencing, being left naked in an infinite void, not having any prior understanding nor training in anything esoteric nor spiritual, nor existential, nothing whatsoever, I felt I had been plunged into a hellish abyss, I felt completely alone and totally confused. I believe I know what hell feels like, no exaggeration. (I believe hell is a state of mind, not an actual place)

My initial search for the truth then, was born out of a desperate need to be free from the hellish experiences that I had inadvertently discovered. The universe had given me an existential kick in the spiritual bollocks and I was hurting, big time. I desperately needed to be free from pain, free from suffering. It took at least 10 years to get back to the point where I was feeling somewhat tenuously normal again. It took another 5 years to get my life back on track.

So why am I here taking up your time with my stories?

I'm glad you asked.

Because, I feel so much more stable now, with a much keener understanding of life and reality. I have become interested in experimenting with some other forms of consciousness apart from the one that I experience regularly on a daily basis. I have watched a few videos on psychedelics and read quite a few testimonials and I like what I have seen and heard thus far. Of course, there are those bad trips that everyone talks about, but from my own bad trip living experience and the testimony of the bad trip, I feel that a bad trip can actually be a good trip in disguise. Might not feel good at the time, but hey, that's life.

So I hope to stick around for a while and see if I can learn a thing or two along the way. If nothing else, it might be fun.
 
Welcome, David. Very interesting point of view.

With no intended disrespect whatsoever, I'm going to tell you that I just don't think this experience is for you. With your background, I would honestly fear for your safety and sanity with spice. If you think that cannabis can be overwhelming, that it's "too much too quickly", let me tell you... DMT is a billion times more so... a trillion, bazillion times more so. You cannot fathom how powerful this experience actually is. It is weirdness beyond your wildest imaginings - and for as long as it lasts, it's FOREVER.

It sounds as though you know yourself and you don't like being overwhelmed. This experience WILL overwhelm you in ways that may fuck you up, I'm telling you. I would think it through VERY carefully before stepping through this door.
 
David - I agree with Art entirely. Your description of the panic attack wouldn't sound too unfamiliar to someone who smokes spice. This stuff can rip a hole in your reality, and it is utterly overwhelming.
 
Thanks for the quick responses guys and thanks for the advice.

I'm actually in agreement with you guys about the potential disastrous outcomes which may occur if I was to experiment with psychoactive substances. This is why I have decided to start with a very small dose of home grown shrooms. I'll start with a very small dose, see how it goes and then maybe move gradually up to a higher dose, after I have had time to reflect and consolidate.

This way I can experiment with altered states of consciousness while not pushing myself over the edge.
 
Hey and welcome! :)

I think starting with a very small dose of mushrooms (like < 0.5g of cubensis) might be a good idea. Perhaps you even learn to accept to lose control. You should, however, keep in mind that the effects you get from a small to medium dose of mushrooms is not even comparable to the effects you will get from high dose of mushrooms or smoked DMT. So please step very carefully!

Good luck,
Evening Glory
 
Thanks Evening Glory,

Perhaps you even learn to accept to lose control.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail right on the head there EG.

One of the main things I am wanting from this experience, is to understand the nature of why I feel so frightened of losing control. As I mentioned in my preamble, I think the nature of my experiences was a reflection of my own state of mind, that is to say, I experienced the void from a perspective of fear and terror. The void mirrored back to me the state of my own consciousness. I now understand though, that the way I experienced the void was how I perceived it, not that the way I perceived the void was in anyway the voids inherent nature. In fact, I am convinced that there is nothing else but love.

So please step very carefully!
Click to expand...

Good advise. I will be careful.

I have already been burned once and do not intend repeating that experience. I'm hoping but not expecting, the psychedelic experience to help me figure out those things that impede my progress.
 
I’m not so sure that starting with a small dose (of anything) and working your way up is a good idea. Better to just stay away.

The problem with starting small is that you may be lulled into a false sense of security. You’ll think, “That wasn’t so bad, I can handle that.” But then your next dose, even if just slightly larger than the last, maybe even if smaller, might propel you further and deeper than you could imagine, and then it would be too late.

Be very careful.
 
I understand what you are saying gibran2.

I understand that there are risks involved and that it is difficult to dose mushrooms accurately. I will be experimenting at home though, in a safe environment and I will be preparing that environment before hand to make sure that it is a positive environment. I also got quite a bit of advice from people that I know, in person, that have had quite a bit of experience with psychedelics of various kinds. I have asked them a truck load of questions and I do feel quite prepared for what ever eventuates.

Also, I have been around for quite a while and experienced quite a few difficulties, trials and tribulations in my time. I have had my fair share of set backs, disenchantments and disappointments along the way. In other words, I'm old enough and ugly enough to handle most things.

Like most things in life, if you never try it, you will never know. I'm not one to be content with not knowing, so trying is my only option.

Thanks for the advice.
 
My first instinct was to say "Stay away as well."

I think however since you are 41, you can do what you like in your free time.

and asking for help and advise here is a good start. I think you have a good outlook on it. you said you think you need

to let your self loose control, and with these tools i think thats possible. I have to say though not all experiences

are delightful lessons. when i first experimented with psychedelics i had some intense hard lessons about how much of a

piece of scum i was. I had to go through some personal transformations, and these things helped. not easy though.

I still feel like Im going to have a panic attack before i smoke spice LOL.
 
Sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. Mescaline, as advised above might be the way to go, although low dose of shrooms shouldn't be too difficult either. Work up slowly and NEVER be lulled into a false sense of security. Playing with your mind is about a thousand times more dangerous than fire...

Just to give you an idea:

a low dose of mushrooms is a tap on the finger;
a medium dose a handshake;
a high dose a rap on the knuckles;
any dose of spice is potentially a baseball bat to the face, and a high dose is a scythe across the neck that'll pull your head from its root.... (sounds like you've been here already)

welcome to the nexus, from a member your age whose panic attacks have always occured while deep in the spice trance.:)

JBArk
 
I'd also not dare to recommend that you take any psyches. But I would like to chip in if your going that way.

There was a poll on here a while ago that resulted in cactus/mescaline being voted the least likely to cause bad trips, so if you insist on trying a psychedelic, I'd suggest that. Start with a mere 3-5g of dried torch or pedro, depending on potency. You'll get a psychedelic mindchange with a nice mdma-ish glow but not much in the way of visions. Even at this level it's possible to have negative emotions (dreamer has experienced sad, lonely, unhappy, yearning, sympathy, but never panic nor anxiety... and it's usually positive emotions) so be mindful of set and setting.

However, learning to let loose of control is one of the biggest lessons of ayawaska (and DMT)... I'd never dare suggest it, but who knows, for a person without your issue I'd say that is one of the major benefits (people are such control freaks), so I can understand you being interested. I have to admit if I were having panic attacks I'd be tempted to try ayawaska to see if it would shamanically cure me (it cured a dreamer of his mild CFS/ME or depression, so he has an almost religious faith in its powers to cure the human brain), but please don't take that as me thinking you should try that. If you do decide to go that route, maybe start with ayawaska alone? Say, a 25g brew? (What do others think?) Then if that's ok you could go higher if you wanted (50), or start introducing DMT admixture plants starting at a minimal dose then working up slowly each session until you find your visionary dosage level.

One things for sure, smoking DMT is I'll wager a definite no-no if you have panic attack issues. Panic was one of the mainstays of every launch for that dreamer. After launch it calms down, but I'd be concerned that that could trigger off one of your attacks (not that I know if it would or not).

By THC, you mean the stuff in skunk weed? That stuff can indeed cause panic.

Most importantly, you have to ask yourself: are you willing to risk setting off your panic attacks again with these experiments? I mean, it's an imaginable possibility. If the answer is no, then maybe you want to play safe and just enjoy the consciousness you have now. Only you can weigh up the pros and cons, it's your life to explore as you wish.

Good luck in whatever you decide. And yes, life is indeed a trip, I think that a lot! :)
 
DavidB said:
Thanks Evening Glory,

Perhaps you even learn to accept to lose control.
Click to expand...

I think you hit the nail right on the head there EG.

One of the main things I am wanting from this experience, is to understand the nature of why I feel so frightened of losing control. As I mentioned in my preamble, I think the nature of my experiences was a reflection of my own state of mind, that is to say, I experienced the void from a perspective of fear and terror. The void mirrored back to me the state of my own consciousness. I now understand though, that the way I experienced the void was how I perceived it, not that the way I perceived the void was in anyway the voids inherent nature. In fact, I am convinced that there is nothing else but love.

So please step very carefully!
Click to expand...

Good advise. I will be careful.

I have already been burned once and do not intend repeating that experience. I'm hoping but not expecting, the psychedelic experience to help me figure out those things that impede my progress.
Click to expand...


I think a panic attack ( "frightened of losing control" ) during a (strong) mushroomtrip will be complete and utter horror.

But if you ask me, a humble and flexibele, positive attitude is all one needs. And from your words, you seem to fit that picture.

Anyways, take your time and keep us informed :)
 
I think in my case, although "panic attack" is the generic description I use, it would probably be more accurate to call it an "existential crisis". It is probably easier for people to relate to "panic attack" than it is to relate to "existential crisis", which is why I use the prior term rather than the later.

An existential crisis, in my experience, is that point we get to in human comprehension, where all ability to understand breaks down. The human mind is limited in its ability to comprehend, as everything that it perceives is a form of conceptualisation. Conceptualisations in themselves are apparitions, not being anything in reality except an idea formulated in the mind in response to stimuli.

When all content is lost, when there are no longer any forms emerging into consciousness, when we stand at the threshold of the mind, the event horizon of conceptual reality, when we stare into oblivion, ready to be annihilated.

This my friends, is why I panic.
 
Yeah, I'm afraid you just sealed it for me as well, DavidB. As your attorney, I advise you officially not to go down this road. If you must, I agree that mescaline is likely your tamest alternative.

The existential crisis you've just described sounds EXACTLY like DMT. In fact, there is nothing on Earth (that I'm aware of) which facilitates this exact experience like vaporized DMT. It's not for you. Trust me on this. Heed the experienced posters above that are telling you more of the same, and save yourself from a world of hurt. You don't want to face down these demons.
 
DavidB said:
…when we stare into oblivion, ready to be annihilated.
Click to expand...
I read that phrase and immediately thought of some of my more difficult DMT experiences. Except I didn’t stare into oblivion, ready to be annihilated. I was annihilated, and was aware of the entire process until “I” was no more. Not easy.
 
If you ever decide to do it, there is no rush at all. Don't do it until you're completely ready, you have plenty of time. I highly recommend meditating for as long as you need beforehand. It's best to remember "acceptance"; it never hurts to also understand that nothing is truly that terrible, and death is only the beginning of something new. Once you feel you have your life in order, just sit and and count 1 for your first exhale, 2 for your first inhale, 3 for your second exhale, etc. Wait until you feel peaceful and settled, good meditation should leaving you feeling more tranquil and accepting. When you're ready, calmly approach your smoking apparatus and just remember to accept and surrender (to the most amazing thing imaginable!) =)
 
"I didn’t stare into oblivion, ready to be annihilated. I was annihilated, and was aware of the entire process until “I” was no more."
Click to expand...

Yes of course, that is ultimately the whole point in my desire to experiment with hallucinogens, what other point is there?

I whole heartedly embrace Livingstrategy's advice,

"meditating for as long as you need beforehand", remember "acceptance", "nothing is truly that terrible, death is only the beginning of something new." "feel peaceful and settled", "feeling more tranquil and accepting".
Click to expand...

And most importantly of all, "surrender".

And besides, I prefer to deal with the fear of death now, instead of waiting until I have no time and no choice.
 
You are right gibran2, fnog9's case is similar in some ways to my own. The major differences though, is that I have already dealt with most of my issues, not having had a panic episode for about 5 or 6 years, and I only have normal levels of anxiety now.

I'm so glad that fnog9 found a cure for those terrible nightmares and not being able to sleep, must have been horrific. It is nice to know that confronting our fears head on, can have a lasting positive affect. There was the possibility that fnog9 could have made his situation worse, but considering how bad the situation already was, there was really nothing for him to lose. Fortunately, he made the right choice, as it worked out for the best.

In my situation, I have already dealt with 95% of the issues that used to nag me, the issues that were the cause of my panic and anxiety. I really appreciate the concern of the people on this forum and I certainly take on board the advice, I would be foolish not to.

I will try a minimal dose of mushrooms, and I may well find that I don't really like it, but I wont know that unless I give it a try. Also, not being burdened by anxiety and panic is one thing, which is fantastic in itself, but not knowing why these things occurred in the first place and why I experienced the things I did, is in my mind, not a satisfactory completion.

There are some things about myself that I need to know, and I was hoping psychedelics may help provide me with these answers.

I'm not opposed to having some fun and interesting experiences neither. 😉

regards,

DavidB
 
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