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Limitations of verbal/written language

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Exitwound

Exitwound

Knows nothing
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I think two particular terms associated with psychedelics, "breakthrough" and "ego death", are very good examples why we, as a human beings, will never be able to fully understand each other with just words both speaken or written.

For example "breakthrough" - the most overused, sought for and underestimated thing you will stumble upon when researching about entheogens and DMT in particular. "How can I breakthrough?", "How close am I?", "I had a breakthrough on 60ug of LSD" - these types of questions and statements one will often hear when reading thematic forums.

I think world would be a better place, if people stop making "breakthrough" an achievement kind of label for an uninformed. "I can't break through guys!!! help!!!" - come on! It's like focusing on some particular aspect of experience, potentially maybe one of the most difficult and lifechanging moments, when there is an infinite sea of slow and fast currents, different depths and landscapes and creatures. It's like being fixated onto reaching Mariana trench bottom just for "I've been there" medal.
There has been talk about third "S" in recent threads, which stands for Skill, which I wholeheartedly support. You won't be going open water diving to 25m depth without prior training and lower depth submersions and learning how to handle the basic scuba machinery, will you?

Same goes with "ego death". I've read hundreds of trip reports over span of previous few months. What I found interesting is that how wide is a spectrum of experiences described as ego death. Ranging from forgetting your name for a few minutes to total dissolution of reality and existence.

Just to make myself clear: I am not stating that I am an expert on what to call breakthrough or not, or telling people what to do, I just would love that people in psychedelic community in general would stop falling for the same trap (as everyone does in everyday life) and making false treasures out of meaningless labels (thanks to DMT popularizators partially).

Love and peace to everyone!
 
The DMT experience is very subjective, so the best we can do is utilise the tools at our disposal, i.e. language.

Tell a seasoned psychonaut about one's breakthroughs and ego deaths, and they will nod knowingly, even if they didn't see anything remotely similar to your own experience. The indescribable feeling is enough of a description when telling others in the know. However, trying to explain these concepts to a non-psychonaut or someone who hasn't broken through yet is a challenge.

Many times i found myself talking to extremely smart scientists about the psychedelic experience, and we inevitably use really vague words, akin to New Age lingo. It's unavoidable. In fact, many newbies are dubious when we talk about the experiences using that sort of language. As much as i dislike New Age culture, the words associated with New Age are the most suitable for describing the psychedelic experience.

Listening to a spiritual guru talk about metaphysical things can be heard in many different ways. One could understand everything they are saying, because they are already spiritually inclined. A materialistic reductionist would have a much harder time trying to wrap their head around it, and many just give up and denounce it as mumbo jumbo.

Similarly, if a science professor were giving a very advanced lecture, only those who have the prior experience with learning/engaging with science in that discipline could comprehend. The layperson would be just as stumped as the materialistic reductionist.

Language is ultimately derived from experience. If i asked whoever is reading this to visualise being punched in the face, that would be very easy, even easier if the reader has had prior experience. Even if someone has never been punched in the face, they can still muster up an accurate visualisation. Tell someone to visualise a 6 dimensional shape like a Calabi-Yau shape, and that becomes much harder, because most people do not have a 6th dimensional object in their mind to refer to.

We can comprehend many things beyond our scope of experience, but it is still limited. A philosopher can stretch the boundaries of rhetoric far more than one who does not use their mind.

In order to convey your thoughts about subjective experiences, you need to break it down to a feeling that the listener/reader can empathise with. Telling someone that there are moments on DMT where it feels like your ultimate home, the feeling of home taken to infinity. The listener/reader will likely know the feeling of home. It's the infinity part that they probably cannot empathise with, but they can understand without fully "getting it".
 
But language is very limiting indeed, and some things then shouldn't be discussed.

We live in a world where all speak, all the time, and they tell themselves story, they escape loneliness through it. It's about knowing, being known, having a grasp of the situation. We make that grip so strong, so tight, we narrow our window on reality, and when it is stretched, we are left terrified, to understand so vividly how our identity is fragile and superficial.

Language is a primary tool in this dubious magical tour we use to separate ourselves from the now. To create this little personnage we send on adventures in our mind, to do our biding and exercise and gymnastic, so we are always out there, and never in. Never facing we must subdue to the will of nature, that we are oblivion, something far beyond understanding, far beyond remembrance.

In our modern time, we have forgotten about discipline. About this immutable axis that makes the whole body stands and that is a language so different, so vastly different, it is incomprehensible with logic. It can only be felt.

It is call breath and man did not make it. It is not the product of his labor or a strive for definition, to impose something on living things he has no control over whatsoever. It is not music either, . Both singing and speaking trouble the breath. The trouble can be beautiful, express beautiful things, but still is trouble.

Man feels he need to put everything outside of him. All his dreams. He is an artist, isn't he ? So he impose the fast nature of his mind on the world and the world burns, because it goes faster than it should. Because the mind should stay in the body. Because the boundaries of this form are infinite, but the boundaries of the forms we use to escape this infinity, them are very, very tiny.

The externalization of knowledge, first through language and then through its written form, has separated us from all of organic life on Earth. We try to escape the way of the body, the slow evolution and passing on through countless eons and generations. We try to escape birth. But to live outside of the body is suicidal. So why spend so much time in boxes, I meant, coffins ?

Language separates from felt experience. The domain of the body, and the mind when it is in the body, is vast; while the land of language, of this mind stepping out, is little. Like a book is to a sunrise or a night sky filled with stars.

Hands are tools of control, and we now speak through our hands. We write. And when we used to sing, we now play instrument. And where we walked, we now drive and what not other silly achievement that only strengthen the ego and the need for control.

And because man, his body, is nature. This thirst for control over himself and his body, will result in a need to control nature. So no more countless stars in the sky.

Our errors is so radical but we see it as filled of glory and a testament to something we try to convince ourselves we are. Deep down the rabbit hole we go.

It's not that they are limitations to language, it is limitating in nature. The errors that spawns from language are little in comparison to the error that is the reliance on language as the tool to understand reality, and to communicate the understanding of reality. You will read this and feel like you may have understand something, but you understood nothing ! This message is a lie, step out of it ! Forget everything ! Splash pikaboo !
 
Hi buddy:roll: So you would like people to stop falling for the trap? Forget about it! All you can do is help yourself from falling:) This is a game of smoke and mirrors...people fall in the traps and illusions for a reason...and its a good and loving reason:lol:
 
If you want to become a doctor, you need to be in a medical environment and use medical lingo and language enable to communicate effectively. If you want to be in the military you need to be in a military environment, use military lingo and language enable to communicate effectively. If you want to be a psychonaut you need to be in a psychedelic environment and use psychedelic lingo and language enable to communicate effectively.

If I were just starting in medicine or the military or exploring psychedelics I will learn and do my best to use the terms that are associated with my new environment. This newly learned lingo, at first, may be used out of context, misused, or maybe overused. Like a toddler first learning how to talk. It is not surprising to me at all to find someone that is new to psychedelics to make some intital faux pas. If the goal is to have a breakthrough, so be it, go for it, they will learn along the way.

That whole skill thing is out the window sometimes I have to say. I have plenty of skills, since we are talking about it like that, and still sometimes find myself having to ride it out and have to learn how to swim on the spot. Adapt or freak out. I think anyone who has used psychedelics enough times know what I am talking about here.

Not that I am down playing a psychedelic skillset, I just think that some things you just cannot prepare for and all those skills you thought you had are all bye bye gone, and now you just hold on for the ride. Skill is an ego thing.
 
FranLover said:
Hi buddy:roll: So you would like people to stop falling for the trap? Forget about it! All you can do is help yourself from falling:) This is a game of smoke and mirrors...people fall in the traps and illusions for a reason...and its a good and loving reason:lol:
Click to expand...

Yes! But you are right, it was just a shout into the void, as usual. And the reason is indeed love :)

Thanks to everybody for replies. I am glad this sparkled some interesting opinions. I have nothing against words, but as dear FranLover said, I see people falling into the same traps over and over, because of words. But that's the way how things are and should be I guess.
 
Language has it's limitations. But it is an organic thing. Language changes all the time. So we can grow the language to better fit what we want to express. And the more our language grows, the better we understand what it is we wanted to say....theoretically.
 
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