Living Knowledge

[cubeananda]

Hello friends.

This is a thread to which I will now invest most of my energies. The aim is to present a simplified version of The Fourth Way System created by Gurdjieff and P.D. Ouspensky

However, this simplification is not my own, and has been handed to me from a school which I participate in.

As an introduction to The Fourth Way it may pique your interests. If you should continue to search in the line of the fourth way, you may come across a Teacher.

The idea is that, the more one produces in one's self a Magnetic Center, that substance will attract a teacher.

In a sense, schools find you.

Here are names which are helpful for that purpose:

Gurdjieff

P.D. Ouspensky

Rodney Collins


The only condition upon reading is that I ask that you try to be aware of yourself should you decide to respond/ask questions. There are so many contradictions in reality, that it is good if one tries to goes with my flow, as these are the devices which have been created. Other, seemingly contradictory, devices can be created and are just as good in their own context. But it is possible that this thread can be living in itself if we bring our full awareness to it.

The most important Idea is that Man is Asleep.

To be more accurate, man's higher centers are asleep.

Before his higher centers can be awakened, the lower centers need to function properly, and in harmony with the Solar Plexus.

The main problem with the lower centers functioning correctly is negative emotions.

The problem with higher centers awakening, is the functions working correctly, but only in harmony with the Gastric Plexus and not with the Solar Plexus.

Only a school can provide the emotional environment necessary to create a resonance with the solar plexus.

The Higher Self Contains a Higher Emotional and Higher Mental Center.

The Lower Self contains the following centers.

The Sex Center.
The Instinctive Center.
The Moving Center.
The Emotional Center.
The Intellectual Center.

This solar plexus which I have denoted is the real solar plexus, and is not actually a "chakra" It is an empty space which exists at the golden mean. Understanding of this point demonstrates how perfectly human beings were designed.

These brains have been understood by man in a form which has been concealed in playing cards

Along with the Tarot deck, this is a system designed by Conscious Schools in order to conceal a hidden meaning, for later schools to understand.

People who are not in a school generally cannot understand it, because it requires a group of students working on self-observation and self-work together to develop an accurate understanding.

At the simplest level, the colors which i have coded and the type of card reveal everything.

Clubs are the instinctive center, Spades are the moving center, Hearts the emotions, Diamonds the intellectual.

But what is the significance of the Jack, Queen, and King?

And even more deeply, what of each number?

Each thing has a specific meaning.

Q. How do you know how many centers there are?

A. In the ordinary way you can observe four different functions which obviously come from different sources, controlled by different principles. Self-observation shows this quite clearly and after some time you cannot mix them.

Q. Why haven't modern psychologists come to that conclusion?

A. It comes from schools, and must be explained orally. There are things which can be described in books and there are other things which can never be rightly described [in books].

Q. So the idea of centres is an old Idea?

A. It is very old.

P.D. Ouspensky The Fourth Way

This image is to help briefly understand the divisions of the Centers.

So I will certainly add to this thread/tweak it in a short time, please ask questions or give feedback.

Thank you for reading!

 

[d-T-r]

"Actually this knowledge is even simpler now than what I am indicating, but because you aren't so familiar with any of this , it must take a more complicated form."

To play devils advocate for a second or 3, I wouldn't assume that it "must take a more complicated form" nor that the reason for the complexity is based 'outside' of yourself

Also, i think you're views on "2 infinity's" are evidently based in dualism. An infinity is an infinity. An objective 'thing'. if there are 2, these two must reside in a third, but in total there is still just 1 no matter how many times the unified state extends in to multiplicity.

What i'm coming to learn lately, is that it's easier to complicate things than it is to simplify them. Something we are all 'guilty' of yet it's a paradox we live within. To undersand anything, we have to express an idea and tie together words and concepts but the more words and concepts we use, the more fragmented and self replicating the 'map' becomes.And that's all it ever is, A map, and not the terrain it's self. Yet the map makers are equally as part of the terrain being mapped

 

[cubeananda]

I will try to simplify as much as I can

The main idea is of a Conscious and Mechanical self, this whole philosophic thing about infinities is just to provide a context.

There would be a unity, if we were crystallized in the higher state. And it may be right (in a different context) that the infinity is unified, and only one.

For the practical purposes of understanding that we are subject to this contradiction, there are 2 realms, one of which Spirals upward, the other Spirals Downward.

We are inbetween these two spirals. For the reason that, the natural tendency is to move downward. (mechanically)

 

[cubeananda]

Here is an entire system of ideas, simplified down to just 30 words.

This is almost too simple, in some ways. But I will give you this resource as it should be given. I think more can be learned from this group of words, than from my thread, perhaps. :lol:

 

[cubeananda]

The next pieces of the system which I should like to address:
"I"


One of the more important tools in learning how to become more conscious, and less mechanical is the idea that "I" as a word, only exists in the solar plexus.

We use the word "I" many times through a day. These "I's" are all coming from different parts of the stomach and abdomen. From different centers.

This can be demonstrated by the pilgrimage to Mecca.

The crowd of people is a symbol of the internal crowd inside of each of us.

True Self, is this Cube which we see. This is a representation of our Solar Plexus.

True "I" is based off of the Organization of this crowd of people.

Generally, the lower self is nothing more than a collection of 10,000 "I's" and they are all contradictory to each other.

"The Tao, the undivided great one, gives rise to two opposite reality principles, the dark and the light, the Yin and Yang."

One of the first steps is to admit that the word "I" is a lie, 99.9% of the time.

 

[Jin]

keep up the good work :twisted: ,

 

[cubeananda]

The next topic to discuss is Influences



In life there are 3 types of influences.

A influence:
Mechanical influences which include, food, sex, and money.

95% percent of the 7 billion people on this earth and completely absorbed in A Influence!


B Influence:
Influences which have a conscious Origin, but are no longer helpful for the purpose of Awakening Higher Centers, and consciously achieving Higher States.

This post exists on the level of B influence, as far as I know.

C Influences:

Influences which come directly to the individual from the script which has been designed by the Absolute and His Host of Angels/Conscious Beings/Enlightened Ones.

I ennumerate different names which come from different B influences, for your sake, but it doesn't matter how I define it, C Influence is the most mysterious thing in the universe.

C Influence is like a Conscious Corporation in our Universe, and the whole aim of C Influence is to keep the masses Consciously Poor, while connecting schools of People to a Divine Source.

 

[No Knowing]

I am reading intently...

But I think you are projecting your own experience onto consciousness itself, in saying that, we need a school to ascend...

What about Jesus, Buddha, Osho, and various Holy Men and Shamans that learn from apprenticeship? I think a school is necessary for socially minded individuals, which most people are, but it is definitely not necessary for all.

I believe you may have said a great amount of luck can take the place of a school also, so this may be you referring to people like those I mentioned above.

And a relevant quote,

“I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others” Krishnamurti

I'm not trying to make waves here, as I love making maps of consciousness, my own eclectic map is even very similar to the one you are describing [drawing much from Gurdjieff] But one always should avoid straying into dogma [that they hold an "ultimate truth"] with their maps...

 

[cubeananda]

Through self-observation, and through learning to make the 4 lower centers work rightly one can in fact learn to become more peaceful and more compassionate.

If this is the sole aim, a school is unnecessary.

The form of peace and compassion which this school works with is of a higher level than ordinary mind can comprehend.

One thing that is important to remember is: what is alive now?

Krishnamurti is right, however he is speaking about B Influence. he himself has become B Influence, a dead influence.

Men like Krishnamurti and Osho are products of schools. The work done by other lives within schools. To us it looks like luck. Both are true.

Q. Why are you so sure schools are necessary?
A. Before speaking of why they are necessary it must be realized for whom they are necessary, because schools are not necessary at all for the vast majority of people. They are necessary only to those who already realize the inadequacy of knowledge collected by the ordinary mind and who feel that, by themselves, with their own strength they can neither resolve the problems which surround them nor find the right way. Only such people are capable of overcoming the difficulties connected with school work, and only for them are schools necessary.

And in order to understand why schools are necessary one must realize that the knowledge which comes from men of higher mind can be transmitted only to a very limited number of people simultaneously and that the observance of a whole series of definite conditions, without which knowledge cannot be transmitted correctly is necessary.

 

[No Knowing]

Thanks for the pertinent and timely response. I like your perspective and believe I am understanding more and more of where you are coming from.

I would like to hear more about the differences between B and C influences. It seems like C is very hard to describe. Is it an influence that comes in the now DIRECTLY from a consciousness conduit[enlightened one]?

I could see how B influences such as Krishnamurti's Books or the Bible do not contain the essence of their teacher. And are DEAD as you say...

Would also like for you to elaborate on this statement.

C Influence is like a Conscious Corporation in our Universe, and the whole aim of C Influence is to keep the masses Consciously Poor, while connecting schools of People to a Divine Source.

So the influences from above try to keep consciousness away from the masses yet give it to people who are members of certain schools? Please elaborate.

Very interesting stuff, thanks for taking the time to write it out and explain the nuances of your map.

 

[cubeananda]

It is only one scale which suggests that there is a Conscious Network who works to keep the masses asleep.


However, on another scale it is easier to digest that is just unlikely due to how many people exist.

A magnetic center is created in man which creates the impulse to follow something invisible, and mysterious. B Influence is helpful because it teaches people to recognize C influence. But it is only C influences which can affect someones life significantly enough to make him or her seek a conscious Teacher or a conscious School.

It is the magnetic center in man which gives him the impulse to use DMT and various psychedelics for spiritual purposes.

I would like to hear more about the differences between B and C influences. It seems like C is very hard to describe. Is it an influence that comes in the now DIRECTLY from a consciousness conduit[enlightened one]?

Yes. One's own higher centers and Third Eye also play a particular role.

Most of all, luck is the most important thing.

It takes luck to detect C Influence in one's own life, and to hold on to these verifications. This level of consciousness is rare because most people don't take C influence seriously.

 

[Jin]

i suppose these schools have got some good knowledge , like with breathing exercises and all that , yet DMT is simply awesome , i suppose these schools need some before these individuals will reach those states of enlightenment

also i cannot believe there are diagrams on the development of the seeker , as if the diagram will help anybody ( the menu is not the meal ) ,,

the real development of the seeker is not some diagram , its an awesome journey taken by those with a clear mind and a pure heart , its hardcore , very few reach their destination which is the journey itself , since there was nowhere to go and come the seeker finally arrives now-here which is eternity itself ,

edit : could this thread offer any clarity on the things discussed in this thread ? in one word this thread is - "vague "

 

[cubeananda]

Some people will find these concepts helpful, and so it may not be meant for you Jin.

 

[Jin]

:lol:

 

[Michal_R]

Hi cubeananda,

I find your thread interesting, yet I must agree with Jin on that it is somewhat unclear what is its main purpose...

...could this thread offer any clarity on the things discussed in this thread?

Please do not misunderstand us: I think its great that you have been working on your own thread here, but could you perhaps make its "goals" more clear? Something like that you want to present the teaching of the ´Fourth way School´, for example. You know, it always helps the reader when s/he knows the author´s intentions.

Could you also please clarify what you meant by the following sentence, if might help me to understand better:

It is good to understand that there is only one conscious school on the planet at the moment.

Thanks.

 

[No Knowing]

I echo everything Jin and Michael_R said. :thumb_up:

 

[cubeananda]

Yes, good. My aims are to present a teaching of a living school. I will strive to make it simple.

 

[cubeananda]

Internal Worlds within Man



World 1. The Absolute.

World 3. All Worlds

World 6/Hydrogen 6. Higher Mental Center.

World 12/Hydrogen 12. Higher Emotional Center.

World 24/Hydrogen 24. Essence

World 48/Hydrogen 48. True Personality

World 96/Hydrogen 96. False Personality

 

[cubeananda]

Essence and Personality


"Essence is what is born in you, Personality is what you acquire."

Essence includes ones pleasures, predispositions, inclinations, tendencies.

One way to see how essence is different form personality.

Look at something, or experience something, colors can affect one's essence. Colors in themselves.

It is one's personality which thinks about the impression one is taking in. Or even more often, it is because personality is too strong that we may not feel any reason to look at all the colors which surround us or be affected by them.

In a state of essence, one might be more interested in colors than in fulfilling a responsibility.

Q. If essence is what we are born with, can it be added to?

A. Yes, but it can be done only if personality becomes educated and ceases to press upon essence. Personality is too heavy, too strong; it surrounds essence like a shell, so nothing can reach it directly, everything has to pass through personality. Essence cannot grow in these conditions, but if personality becomes more transparent, impressions and external influences will penetrate though it and reach essence, and then essence will begin to grow.

One problem is people are not in Essence when they come across spirituality.

It then falls into the realm of personality, and does not provide for an ascending octave.

 

[cubeananda]

A good way to understand what a state of essence is like: usually when we take a shower, there are no influences around us to put us in personality, so when we are naked experiencing the feeling of warm water we are in a state of essence.