Lye Lock Question.

[Makyo]

Hello.

I seem to have a problem, i think it's lye lock, but since i did almost the exact same as i always do i'm not too sure.

Well, i did something different, i prepared my base, 200gr NaOh and about 2L of water, let it cool a little and then added my MHRB, 130gr, usually i add it after 24 hours, maybe this was too quick?
Im not sure.

After my first pull i noticed some glassy fibers on top of my MHRB soup, the Heptane was on top of it, i siphoned it out and threw it away, but i don't know what it was.

My first pull gave me as good as nothing, same with the second and third pull.

Can someone tell me what went wrong here?
It looks like lye lock, but i didn't do much different then i usually do.

All help would be much appreciated!
I hope i can still fix it, the MHRB is perfect quality, but i yielded as good as nothing.

Do the glassy fibers indicate lye lock, i mean, are they solidified lye?

 

[Makyo]

Ok, after some Googling i can confirm it was Lye Lock.

I added my NaOh way too fast, this caused too much heat and the NaOh solidified after i mixed the solvent in.
Luckily it can still be undone by adding some extra warm (almost hot) water, or giving it a hot bath.

 

[Du57mi73]

I've gotten glassy fibers from my basic solution cooling and then dmt becomes crystalized on top of my solution before. Just add your solvent and see if it absorbs. If it is lye, it will not absorb so it doesnt matter. If it is DMT then it absorbs and youve gotten what you came for.

I also want to tell you that you are using WAY too much water and lye. I use 1.2L water, 100g lye, 60g salt, and 150g bark. I think you are wasting lye by using That much water. My solutions are the perfect thickness without it being sludge. Plus its alot easier to handle 1.2L than it is 2L. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[Makyo]

Hey, thanks a lot Du57ml73!

I kinda stuck to this routine, i tend to shake my jar instead of rolling it and with these proportions i have no emulsions, i never had problems with it before, until now.

The glassy fibres where probably lye, i took them out and they didn't dissolve when i rubbed them between my fingers (with gloves), it was weird though, the entire surface was covered with crystalized fibers, next time i take pictures.

Just kidding, there won't be no next time i hope.:roll:

Do you shake your jar as well?
Thanks for your response.

 

[Entheogenerator]

What do you mean by "Lye Lock"?

Also I think this is probably in the wrong subforum. The STB subforum would have been more appropriate, but the Official Extraction Help Thread is really where questions like this belong.

Hope the rest of your extraction goes well.

 

[Makyo]

Lye lock is when your lye or NaOh solidifies, in my case the NaOh turned into long small fibers which floated on top of the dark base.

I found this term when i elaborately Googled my problem, i never heard of this particular problem either, i first thought my glass jar started to flake off :roll:, but that wouldn't make much sense.Although, it looked exactly like floating glass fibers.

If you Google the term with quotation marks "lye lock", Google will make the search results more specific, you'll find that it's used to describe this problem in the extraction of all sorts of chemicals, as Psilocybin, Mescaline, Meth :thumb_dow, and DMT, where lye is involved.

When you add way too much lye to your water, or when you add it too fast in too little water it can solidify into crystals and prevent your molecule from reaching the non polar solvent, resulting in a low, to no yield at all.


You can undo it by adding hot water (not too hot!) or giving the jar a warm water bath.

As far as the extraction goes, it's on hold right now, theres a crack in my jar and i had to pour the solution in smaller jars until i have a big one again. :? It's a bad week for me. :lol:

 

[pitubo]

.. i prepared my base, 200gr NaOh and about 2L of water

Wikipedia lists these values for solubility of NaOH in water:
41.8 g/100 mL (0 °C)
111 g/100 mL (20 °C)
337 g/100 mL (100 °C)

Your 200 grams will not be precipitating/crystallizing from 2 liters of water, no way. The density of NaOH is listed as 2.13 g/cm3, meaning that NaOH crystals will tend to sink to the bottom of the water layer, not float on top of it.

After my first pull i noticed some glassy fibers on top of my MHRB soup, the Heptane was on top of it, i siphoned it out and threw it away, but i don't know what it was.

It is not unlikely that this was your DMT, crashing out from the nonpolar layer and floating on top of the basified water layer.

Do the glassy fibers indicate lye lock, i mean, are they solidified lye?

This "lye lock" term sounds to me like a meth cook myth. Searching the internet will also turn up a lot of nonsense.

 

[Makyo]

Hi Pitubo,
Cyb also told me that it was probably my DMT floating on top of my mix, unfortunately i fished it all out and threw it away. :x

And it was a LOT, the whole surface was covered in glistering shiny crystal needles.

I've always been way too impulsive, i should've kept it, but i've learned a lesson though, always the hard way..., always the hard way unfortunately.

Thanks for the info.
I've seen it in a lot of meth related teks, but also in Psilocybin, Mescaline and some DMT teks.
I'm pretty sure it was DMT now, but much more solid than regular crystals, i could actually break them without having them melt between my fingers.

What i've learned though is, when you ad your MHRB while the lye is still reacting with the water, and you ad your solvent while it's still warm, DON'T let it cool, do your pull before it cools down or the DMT will fall out.

It looks like it pulls most of what's in the bark in one time though.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field."- Niels Bohr

I'm well on my way, behold! :lol:

 

[Du57mi73]

SOOOO. I'm going to say this now because I don't think you've either heard it or it didn't stick... NEVER THROW ANYTHING OUT. Especially if you don't know what it is. I am 90% sure that was DMT as well. I would like to show you my most recent yield which formed the exact way you described but due to poor camera quality i cannot.

Just because it didn't melt between your gloved fingers you assumed it wasn't DMT? That was a poor test. None of my DMT melts when i hold it, especially if i had gloves on to insulate the heat. Pick another method of testing next time, like a water solubility test. If it absorbs in cold water it is lye(or something else), if it doesn't, then it is most like DMT. How did you even fish out the crystals? lol. And dont you think that if it were lye it would absorb into the water? Because it would.

Also, you should never ever add your bark while the lye is still reacting to the water. Some low quality bark has been found to be incredibly weak and it creates micro-fine bark particles that will stay suspended in your NPS even with a soda carb wash. It's happened to me on a few occasions. Wait til it cools before adding your bark.

Is there for some reason that you absolutely need to do everything immediately? Because you will drastically increase your yields if you let your base soup sit for a couple weeks before doing any pulls on it. You THINK it pulls most of whats in it, but whats really happening is that only a fraction of the DMT is available to you because you havent let the lye break down the bark yet to release all of the DMT into the solution.

I never liked rolling my jars, one reason is because they leak, and i find that rolling them allows the soup to leak easier because of the way my lids are shaped. I prefer to shake the living daylights out of my jars to ensure that the NPS has touched every last droplet of the base soup. My yields are 2%-2.8% on average of off-white powder.

 

[Makyo]

Mother of God, 2 to 2.8% yields i can only dream of, could you tell me what tek you are using?

It did stick however good sir! :lol:

I didn't trow my soup away, the jar i was working with cracked, so i poured it in 2 different smaller jars, i'll extract further when i've found a new, bigger one.

What i did throw away was my precious DMT thinking it was lye:x , i fished the crystals out,... hold on,... with... a sifter. 8) Wasn't hard at all.

I am pretty impulsive by nature, well, a LOT actually, so i started to Google like a madman and focused on Lye Lock, searched all the topics i could find and read them all, getting convinced this was it, but i know better now, i really did learn my lesson.

The reason i added my bark so quickly was because i've read about someone who did the same thing, here on the Nexus and got great yields, i thought i'd try something new, again, very impulsive.Normally i don't do this, never had much problems before.

Well, i think i can give you a small tip in return, i hope.
When your jars leak just cut a square out of a thick plastic bag and screw the lid on tight with the plastic between it, this creates an airtight closure of the lid, and prevents leakage.

Sorry for all the smileys, i'm kind of in a good mood i guess.

Seriously though, what tek are you using?

 

[Du57mi73]

Thanks for the tip. I usually just hold the jars with a rag so that it doesn't spill all over me.

It may be okay to add the bark and lye and naptha at the same time, but like I said before, there is some low quality weak bark that is highly uncooperative with that scenario. So on the off chance that you do have that kind of bark, i would highly highly suggest just letting it cool first.

 

[Makyo]

No the bark is good, it's from a great source, but i'm not adding it all at the same time again anyways.

 

[Makyo]

Du57ml73, you are right, i couldn't reply to your PM, but i really need to let you know that i can't thank you enough for your message, you've been a great help! :thumb_up:

(Sorry for the off topic)

 

[Du57mi73]

Hope it works out for you.