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MAOI - 24 hours later?

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GobblinTorch

GobblinTorch

Rising Star
Is this rule the rule to live by when consuming Harmala extract for MAOI?

... Do not consume 12 hours prior or 24 hours after ...

SWIM is going to a music festival and has a stash containing the following possible contraindications:

Mescaline Acetate
MDA
MDMA
Dextro-amphetamine

24 hours after is FOREVER at a music festival. Is that a pretty hard and fast rule? 12 hours before-after is more realistic.
 
12 hours before..no, not worth the risk..12 hours later..still I wouldnt risk it but really harmalas dont last THAT long..I would wait 24 hours to take anything that is going to to create a possible crisis interaction. This is for oral..smoked harmalas obviousily have a shorter half-life.

It is your body..is it really worth risking it just so you can trip out 12 hours later at a festival?
 
I wonder how much shorter for smoked Harmalas?

Not really SWIM is pretty smart as far as drugs go. He isn't reckless, it'd be a shame to end up in hypertensive crisis after defying the perceptions of society on such substances for this much time.

For the most part I'm worried about say if we take Ayahausca at 7pm. We have to be functional and alert for 6am. Dextro-amphetamine is used (bi-annual usage of this not-so-sacred neurotoxin) more often than not so that we can dance pretty early and then wake up with energy.

I know you can't really fuck around with MAOI's if you value your life, so I pretty much just wanted someone such as yourself to say .. "don't do it man" which is basically the best course of action. Maybe I should just skip the Harmalas and save them for more private times ..
 
well just be aware that on a full dose of ayahuasca there wont really be much in the way of dancing going on..a full brew usually puts people into a space where they dont want to do much more than lay there..although on the comedown and on light doses dancing can be nice, but sometimes you just NEED a bed and silence and that can be hard to get at a festival..I never took ayahuasca at a festival though so..

Smoked I am not sure what the half life is..maybe someone else can help you there.

If I was you I would go for mescaline out of the psychs you listed. I know that some people do take mescaline with harmalas, and mescaline is not an amphetamine like the other 3. There is also curranderos in peru I have read of that use ayahuasca traditionally and then san pedro the next morning..still be careful. I have woken up after long ceremonies where I drank until like 1 or 2 am, and still felt the harmala seasickness complete with tracers..it is rare but you dont want to be playing around with amphetamines in that state.
 
Yeah .. I was expecting about 5 hours of something I haven't experienced before. Then getting up and grooving (I love dancing, even when extremely difficult).

Bed= possible in the form of a very, very comfortable rainbow mayan hammock .. aweseom. silence. Yeah not so much, but the music is good. I love music. If DMT makes me want it silent, maybe I should stop going to said festival. At least thats how I feel.

Yeah hmmm. I'm going to see what form of DMT I obtain and decide off that. Smoking it to breakthrough is probably the better idea; make potent Changa. I want to try oral DMT, but its probably too complex to fuck around with at a festival. Better with good friends in close situations. I've known this friend since birth and I want to launch on DMT with him, but maybe it's better I choose a different time. We need to be up (and consequently functional for 12 hours) at 6am on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Monday. Probably better to stick with simple drugs: mescaline, MDA, amphetamine, DMT smoked, 2CB, Psilocybe .. I guess Ketamine, but I don't like the concept of that substance ultimately .. sweet feeling when dancing, but it's decay I'm pretty convinced that my current stash of synthetics is all I need for life as long as I store it properly:

--4 x 0.1g capsule MDA + 0.5g powder
--0.4g MDMA powder + 1g crystalline powder
--25-30mg 2cb in vodka liquid suspension (forget exact concentration, but I know I acquired 0.1g and my first dose was 5mg and I went up about 1.5mg each time until I had the remaining amount left which is fairly close to the amount stated (max dose do far = 17.5mg)
--6 blotter high potency LSD (don't even really enjoy this anymore, Mescaline feels more correct to my psyche. I've dosed anywhere from 1/2 a blotter to 10 blotters + mescaline. I think they're about 150-200mcg a blotter. Feels pretty nice for acid .. that why I stashed it.
--small amber vial stuffed with about 10 5mg instant release dexedrine. small baggie (about 12 caps) of 10&15mg sustained release dexedrine.
--whatever mushrooms I decide to grow or pick
--whatever mescaline or DMT I decide to extract from plants (with respect, I don't want to rape the desert/rainforest, but enjoy the fruits)

I don't "need" to get high, but want to be able to go with the flow and take whatever feels necessary (4 12 hour shifts while simultaneously partying can be exhausting). I also feel like DMT would be a beneficial experience. 3rd year at this festival. I want to set it in stone a feel it's true essence. It feels right to achieved a "long, prolonged derangement of the senses to achieve the unknown."

But yes. This was a stupid post. Harmalas are not to be fucked with. I know what you mean about the next morning. I've never had them with DMT, but I did eat Harmala and Psilocybe before. We smoke shisha tobacco all night and it was great, I enjoyed the 2 hours before we ate mushrooms just as much as after. Harmalas are enjoyable. I don't find them negative at all, but you've gotta be careful I should be ashamed for even thinking of dosing amphetamines without 2 days since MAOI consumption.

/end rant
 
I know alot of people who mixed small amounts of smoked harmalas(changa) with all kinds of stims, ie coke, speed etc.

No real physical side effecs but seems like none of them got a nice changa buzz and alot more anxiety than without the stims.

Also ive done san pedro after drinking rue with no ill effects but it doesnt mean that it isnt possible.
 
i've never heard of nor read of harmala alkaloids causing any negative health effects in any combination.

they have been mixed with cactus and mescaline by many people without negative consequences.

If anyone has any documented cases where a hypertensive or hypotensive crisis was caused by harmala alkaloids in combination with other substances please share the links or refs with me.
 
My main concern wasn't the mescaline. I included that for completeness. I'm much more worried about using 25-35mg of SR Dextroamphetamine the morning / evening after. Perhaps smoking the harmalas is the answer.
 
I'd expect that the worst case scenario is that the amphetamines become potentiated.
Preliminary trials of low-dose amphetamine and MAOIs being administered together are in progress.
Click to expand...
That is a quote from the adderall page of wikipedia
and here is a link you might like:
Amphetamine and MAOIs have also been in use together for 40 years and there are few deaths from apparent serotonin toxicity reported with amphetamine...

In summary, amphetamine definitely has been involved in deaths with MAOIs, and exhibits significant toxicity with venlafaxine (probably serotonin toxicity, as opposed to noradrenergic toxicity). To what degree the toxicity with MAOIs is serotonergic remains uncertain, but most fatalities have been from intra-cerebral bleeding, not serotonin toxicity
Click to expand...

It should be noted that none of these cases employed harmala alkaloids and the harmala alkaloids are significantly different in their action than most pharmaceutical maoi drugs. Harmala alkaloids for example do not cause hypertension when taken with tyramine, however prescription maoi drugs can and this has been fatal in some people.

If they are not taken together you have very little to worry about, but if you are concerned then you might only take half of the dose of the amphetamine.
 
SHroomtroll writes
I know alot of people who mixed small amounts of smoked harmalas(changa) with all kinds of stims, ie coke, speed etc.
Click to expand...
..with this casual an attitude, when the more inexperienced changa-heads get into ayahusca there may well be a death or two..i say safety (& education) first...

also, AlbertKLloyd writes
i've never heard of nor read of harmala alkaloids causing any negative health effects in any combination.
Click to expand...
..i certainly have..it's about having a matter of time to dig up the refs..recall numerous reports in South America of occaisional deaths, there was a death in
N.America a few years ago ascribed to nicotine poisoning..and while the 1950s deaths were with irreversable MAOIs, the amount of tempoary MAOI inhibition
occuring under harmalas is greater than during the longer acting drugs..
..at mild to moderate doses harmalas are reasonably safe, but caution should be exercised,
i have witnessed 2 extreme (1 almost certainly hypertensive) crises induced by high dose harmala+tryptamine+undesirable food/drug combinations,
& it was no joke..
 
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