MAPS MDMA phase 3 results

[Loveall]

Published today in Nature Medicine (open access). Results look great to me

MDMA-assisted therapy for severe PTSD: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 3 study - Nature Medicine

Results from a phase 3, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial demonstrate that MDMA-assisted therapy is safe and effective in treating severe post-traumatic stress disorder.

www.nature.com

"MDMA-assisted therapy for severe PTSD: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 3 study"

 

[dreamer042]

Just in case anyone is not familiar with the process by which the FDA approves drugs for use in the United States. Phase 3 is the final phase of testing in the approval process. If a drug is demonstrated safe and effective in this phase (criteria which MDMA certainly met in this instance), it becomes approved for wide scale medical use.

This little paper might not look it, but this is an historic document. This is MAPS reaching a goal 25 years in the making and the shift point for the future of psychedelics.

 

[Loveall]

I was hoping for the media to pick this up. It is a huge deal, and can help a lot of people improve their mental health with good ramifications in many aspects for society.

There was a pre-emptive article in the New York Times, talking a lot about investing and such. So far the media has been mute (as far as I can tell) now that the results are out

 

[ommani]

I think it's good news, and to be expected given their momentum and the inherent qualities of MDMA. However, without meaning to ruffle any feathers, I don't believe the ends (medicalized MDMA) justify the means in this case ("demonstrating affinity for and utility to the police, the military, the far right, and individuals who have repeatedly upheld violent white supremacism." ) Pandering to the oppressive institutions (military, police, etc.) that profit at the expense and trauma of others, as a strategy for pushing through a drug to be used in the treatment of trauma is an unnecessary, out of touch, and tone deaf approach, in my view. As a disclaimer that goes without saying, I believe that traumatized cops and soldiers deserve to get effective treatment like anyone else, but focusing on these populations as a means to an end seems like a contrived and disingenuous strategy for accomplishing the goal of medicalization...

#19 – MDMA, PTSD, ACAB

In this episode, we explore the implications of MAPS’ main political strategy: demonstrating affinity for and utility to the police, the military, the far right, and individuals who have repeatedly

www.psymposia.com

 

[dreamer042]

I think the media storm is waiting in the wings for when the FDA finally announces the approval.

 

[jamie]

I think it's good news, and to be expected given their momentum and the inherent qualities of MDMA. However, without meaning to ruffle any feathers, I don't believe the ends (medicalized MDMA) justify the means in this case ("demonstrating affinity for and utility to the police, the military, the far right, and individuals who have repeatedly upheld violent white supremacism." ) Pandering to the oppressive institutions (military, police, etc.) that profit at the expense and trauma of others, as a strategy for pushing through a drug to be used in the treatment of trauma is an unnecessary, out of touch, and tone deaf approach, in my view. As a disclaimer that goes without saying, I believe that traumatized cops and soldiers deserve to get effective treatment like anyone else, but focusing on these populations as a means to an end seems like a contrived and disingenuous strategy for accomplishing the goal of medicalization...

#19 – MDMA, PTSD, ACAB

In this episode, we explore the implications of MAPS’ main political strategy: demonstrating affinity for and utility to the police, the military, the far right, and individuals who have repeatedly

www.psymposia.com

To be fair, psymposia is comprised of people who consistently bend facts to support an ideaology just as delusional as the supposed "white supremacism". It is sad and delusional that people are buying into this narrative with anyone they just have some disagreements with...but MAPS being white supremacist etc?? lol? are you freaking kidding? Have you even personally met some of the people they outright are accusing of these things?(I have).

I really hope that people stop to think about just what it is that people like you are saying, and can see the media spin.

How is this not conspiracy talk?

 

[Loveall]

This is a monumental achievement. In practice it works and it is going to help a lot of people.

Arguably, yes, there are concerns when looking at the details. Some investors (not all) have shown authoritarian tendencies. There are also other folks (again, not all) that behave like money zombies consumed by the profit motive. There are also concerns about fair access for the more vulnerable and traumatized communities and I hope that is addressed with a plan.

Sorry if I am downplaying someones valid concerns, my intention here is to express my point of view and I could be wrong.

I try to avoid those sticky details. The key to me is that psychedelics are going to help a lot of people in a culturally sanctioned environment. That can reverberate across society and upgrade many aspects of our culture so we can (1) improve wellbeing, (2) outgrow authoritarianism, and (3) transform the toxic profit motive into sustainable goals that secure our long term future. At least that is my hope.

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I find it hard to believe that MDMA rhetapy for PTSD patients doesn't affect the character of these people. If you go through the work to reconcile with your past traumas you are very likely to come out as a more open and empathic person. I don't see how this could this promote any violent values.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I think it's good news, and to be expected given their momentum and the inherent qualities of MDMA. However, without meaning to ruffle any feathers, I don't believe the ends (medicalized MDMA) justify the means in this case ("demonstrating affinity for and utility to the police, the military, the far right, and individuals who have repeatedly upheld violent white supremacism." ) Pandering to the oppressive institutions (military, police, etc.) that profit at the expense and trauma of others, as a strategy for pushing through a drug to be used in the treatment of trauma is an unnecessary, out of touch, and tone deaf approach, in my view. As a disclaimer that goes without saying, I believe that traumatized cops and soldiers deserve to get effective treatment like anyone else, but focusing on these populations as a means to an end seems like a contrived and disingenuous strategy for accomplishing the goal of medicalization...

#19 – MDMA, PTSD, ACAB

In this episode, we explore the implications of MAPS’ main political strategy: demonstrating affinity for and utility to the police, the military, the far right, and individuals who have repeatedly

www.psymposia.com

Uh, what?!? That seems highly overgeneralized and over simplified. A cherry picked statement. If something becomes legalized and accepted it is on both the dominant framework as well as less dominant ones. Don't get me wrong, as a black man I do see how chauvinistic, "white supremacy," patriarchal paradigms influence culture and society, but I'm skeptical as to how much that applies directly to MAPS work and efforts. It seems to be "for everyone," not just cops and white supremacists...

Also, if we are to get drugs legalized and express our freedom to engage with them, then the broader framework has to accept it into its framework... that said, perhaps MAPS is simply being strategic...

One love

 

[ommani]

To be fair, psymposia is comprised of people who consistently bend facts to support an ideaology just as delusional as the supposed "white supremacism". It is sad and delusional that people are buying into this narrative with anyone they just have some disagreements with...but MAPS being white supremacist etc?? lol? are you freaking kidding? Have you even personally met some of the people they outright are accusing of these things?(I have).

I really hope that people stop to think about just what it is that people like you are saying, and can see the media spin.

How is this not conspiracy talk?

I don't think anyone is calling MAPS white supremacists - neither Psymposia, nor myself by way of echoing the points they've been making. I find it odd that you would read my post in that way, or interpret Psymposia as making such claims.

The political/business strategy that MAPS has actively pursued of pandering to conservatives, military, police, etc. is not a conspiracy theory, but the actuality of what Rick Doblin has repeatedly said and done. If it doesn't bother you that MAPS panders to and accepts money from right-wing people and organizations like the Mercer Foundation, that’s fine, but there is no question as to whether or not MAPS operates in this way.

Lastly, you hardly know me, and your view of Psymposia seems pretty distorted, so your reference to "people like you" strikes me as a projection lacking in substance.

I find it hard to believe that MDMA rhetapy for PTSD patients doesn't affect the character of these people. If you go through the work to reconcile with your past traumas you are very likely to come out as a more open and empathic person. I don't see how this could this promote any violent values.

I'm sure it will have a therapeutic effect on such people, and go a long way towards healing their individual traumas, but unfortunately that's not likely to change the traumatic and traumatizing nature of the systems they are a part of.

Uh, what?!? That seems highly overgeneralized and over simplified. A cherry picked statement. If something becomes legalized and accepted it is on both the dominant framework as well as less dominant ones. Don't get me wrong, as a black man I do see how chauvinistic, "white supremacy," patriarchal paradigms influence culture and society, but I'm skeptical as to how much that applies directly to MAPS work and efforts. It seems to be "for everyone," not just cops and white supremacists...

Also, if we are to get drugs legalized and express our freedom to engage with them, then the broader framework has to accept it into its framework... that said, perhaps MAPS is simply being strategic...

That MDMA is for everyone is obvious, and no one is saying otherwise. That MAPS is actively pandering to the military and right-wing conservatives as a political/business strategy is a matter of public record. If the 'ends justify the means' strategy that MAPS has taken doesn't bother you, that is totally fine, but the issue of them pursuing this course of action is in the public sphere.

 

[Loveall]

Yes, it is true that MAPS has taken donations from the right and worked to serve/heal the military/police. But isn't this compatible with radical inclusion? We are all humans after all. Even though these communities have repressed and imprisoned us, what better way to show them compassion and set a good example than by helping them?

I believe it is also true that MAPS started an outreach program towards traumatized communities with less resources to help them get access to psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.

Time will tell, but I think their progress and results are overall good so far and FDA approval of psychedelic therapy will be a good thing for society. I could be wrong of course, and at the end of the day it is just a guess on my part.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Yes, it is true that MAPS has taken donations from the right and worked to serve/heal the military/police. But isn't this compatible with radical inclusion? We are all humans after all. Even though these communities have repressed and imprisoned us, what better way to show them compassion and set a good example than by helping them?

I believe it is also true that MAPS started an outreach program towards traumatized communities with less resources to help them get access to psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.

Time will tell, but I think their progress and results are overall good so far and FDA approval of psychedelic therapy will be a good thing for society. I could be wrong of course, and at the end of the day it is just a guess on my part.

I second this sentiment.

@ommani, I owe you an apology. My prose was unproductive in my response and that's not me. The factors that impacted it do not make it acceptable.
I thank you for your calm reply back and again I'm sorry.

I do not have much information to work off of relative to MAPS inner workings and such, but am in the same camp as good ol Loveall here and that's where I was coming from.

One love

 

[ommani]

Yes, it is true that MAPS has taken donations from the right and worked to serve/heal the military/police. But isn't this compatible with radical inclusion? We are all humans after all. Even though these communities have repressed and imprisoned us, what better way to show them compassion and set a good example than by helping them?

I believe it is also true that MAPS started an outreach program towards traumatized communities with less resources to help them get access to psychedelic assisted psychotherapy.

Time will tell, but I think their progress and results are overall good so far and FDA approval of psychedelic therapy will be a good thing for society. I could be wrong of course, and at the end of the day it is just a guess on my part.

Yeah, even though I don't think "radical inclusion" is the determining factor that underlies MAPS' approach, I do appreciate that way of looking at it, and agree that their progress and results are good overall. To be honest, I don't completely agree with Psymposia's take on things, as it seems overly one-sided to me, and appears to disregard the good MAPS is doing. On the other hand, I think they raise valid points that a lot of people don't seem to care about.

I've known about MAPS for a long time and was a big fan of them for many years. In fact, I believed in their approach of working with the military, as I naively assumed that they (i.e. Rick Doblin) were doing so out of the generous nature of their good hearts. However, coming to see their deliberate strategy of working with the military as means of furthering their own cause, and adjacent pattern of courting and taking money from right-wing figures seriously put me off from them as an organization.

@ommani, I owe you an apology. My prose was unproductive in my response and that's not me. The factors that impacted it do not make it acceptable.
I thank you for your calm reply back and again I'm sorry.

Voidmatrix, it's all good. It's a pretty contentious topic and a difficult one to tease apart. At this point I pretty much have a knee-jerk reaction whenever the topic of MAPS comes up, and I'm aware of some notable people in the psychedelic space that seem to share my general sentiments.

 

[Voidmatrix]

@ommani, I owe you an apology. My prose was unproductive in my response and that's not me. The factors that impacted it do not make it acceptable.
I thank you for your calm reply back and again I'm sorry.

Voidmatrix, it's all good. It's a pretty contentious topic and a difficult one to tease apart. At this point I pretty much have a knee-jerk reaction whenever the topic of MAPS comes up, and I'm aware of some notable people in the psychedelic space that share my general sentiments.

From me, humbly, I appreciate your understanding. As well as your passion and resolve.

There are a lot of moving parts. There's unfortunately a need to appeal to particular powers that be in order to move forward in many regards in most fields, especially when it involves psychedelics.

I think of Straussman and his DMT trials. In his proposal he had to stick within a particular framework of percieved acceptability (making the "goal" about vital signs and physiological effects. He was fortunately smart enough to embed his true goal within).

One love

 

[muladharma]

I can't tell the mean age of the control groups. If someone can point this out, please.