TEK MASA honey Tek

[Ruffles]

Here is a tek to get Malic DMT in a honey-like state. The focus is on the MASA procedures, so there won`t be complete extraction descriptions.



Materials:

1. DL-Malic acid
2. Acetone (Malic acid shall be added to warm or boiling acetone to the point of saturation thus making a Malic Acid Saturated Acetone - MASA)
3. Xylene or Chloroform (the ones tested so far)
4. MHRB powder
5. Sodium hydroxide or Potassium hydroxide
6. The TOOLS = Kitchen chemistry or better equipment

Methods (in summary, a MAX ion tek into MASA precipitation). What`s described here is starting from a DMT loaded organic solvent (herein, xylene or chloroform):

-Get your loaded organic solvent and MASA ready

(left unloaded Xylene, right loaded Xylene)


- Pipette MASA into organic solvent in a drop-wise fashion. Clouding occurs, cloud may look slightly yellowish. Wait for the cloud to settle (in the case of Xylene, or climb up in the case of Chloroform) to drop-in more MASA. This may take a few days if you wait for all clouding to go out, and I suggest patience on this. Avoid over saturating as Malic acid may drop out of solution.

(left unloaded xylene, right loaded xylene that has been clouded by MASA)


- MASAing is finished when clouding stops occurring, which is another reason to be patient and wait for clouds to dissipate before MASAing again.

(left is xylene with the Malic DMT on the bottom, right is chloroform with the Malid DMT on top)


- Take solvent out carefully and retain the good stuff within the glass. The honey is viscous and tends to stick to the glass and itself, so this decanting is easy. Try to remove as much of organic solvent as possible.

(resulting honey from xylene MASAed on left and chloroform MASAed on right)


- Ressuspend the honey with a polar solvent of choice (acetone, ethanol, water, etc) and drop it into a flat glass recipient to be oven-dried. Keep low temperatures, you should be able to hold the glass. If overheating occurs and the oven smells too much of DMT you might have burned your stuff.

(xylene derived honey after oven drying, the scratches were done during oven-drying to mix the stuff and help with solvent evaporation)


-Scrape the honey into a puddle using a razor blade and collect it into a recipient. Make sure to smell your product for the presence of the polar solvent used for oven-drying, if still present, mix it and put it back into the oven.

(chloroform derived honey after scraping)


(collected honey fractions, left Xylene derived, right Chloroform derived. The darker stuff (right) is cleaner, that means less excess Malic acid which when present turns it light yellow and if it`s at too high concentrations makes malate DMT gunky and more solid)


-If satisfied with resulting product, it may be kept in the freezer but it will never exactly freeze in it. If not satisfied with purity then you can either redo an Acid-Base extraction followed by MASA precipitation (obviously in a much lower volume than the initial extraction) or try a Ethyl Acetate precipitation from Malic DMT Saturated Acetone solution (see below).
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Final results:

From 100 g of MHRB powder, into MAX ion tek as two ``sequential unequal pulls`` (long story short), one that loaded 200 mL of Xylene and another loaded 100 mL of Chloroform, then MASA precipitation as above. Resulted in the 2 tubes above:

- 754 mg from Chloroform
- 1872 mg from Xylene
= 2625 mg of Malic DMT

This is not 100% pure stuff, so it wouldn`t be 2.6% yield (it just can`t be that good!). Still, pretty good yield!

Smell is of DMT when liquid, maybe slightly sweet as in the smell of ascorbic or citric acid? When vaped it smells just like freebase vaped. The taste is definitely unique, completely different from freebase or fumaric DMT.

Obviously all of this is just for the sake of experimentation and learning chemistry. I would never suggest this to be used in any animals within planet earth. Like some crazy people might consider adding it to e-liquid and vape it . Some others might consider sublingual or oral routes. It is unknown (as of now) if it is smoke-vapeable by itself, like the freebase form.

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Comments:

- Oversaturating the loaded organic solvent with Malic acid results in Malic acid precipitation as in white crystals, and this is not good. This is probably the main source of contaminations on the MASA tek final product. FASA precipitations are more user-friendly in this sense. This is the main reason to drop-wise MASA and only drop more when the clouds have dissipated.

(MASA precipitations in xylene, check the white stuff in the middle, that is excess malic acid)


(another look at the Malate DMT honey and the undesired malic acid salts at the center)


This is solvable! Basically we can precipitate Malic DMT while maintaining excess malic acid in solution. Here is a description of a tentative method for Malic DMT precipitation in Ethyl Acetate - Acetone mixture:

1. Dissolve the Malic DMT honey in minimal amount of acetone, the higher the concentration the better so heating the acetone helps to get as much in there as possible. It has to be acetone. It seems to be capable of holding a lot of Malic DMT and-or malic acid.
2. Put in ethyl acetate in a columnar recipient or a recipient that will help decanting. (note: ethyl acetate does NOT dissolve pure malic acid)
3. Add the Malic DMT saturated acetone drop-wise into ethyl acetate. The order matters! Acetone into EA! It will form clouds. May be kept in the freezer while precipitation occurs. DO NOT MIX IT. DO NOT ADD MORE THAN 30-40% OF SATURATED ACETONE INTO EA! KEEP TRACK OF HOW MUCH ACETONE IS INTO THE EA.
4. Wait for the clouds to turn into honey at the bottom. If EA contains less than 40% of acetone, you can drop in more up to that concentration. If EA already contains more than 40% acetone then collect the supernatant from the tube into another, retain the honey on the bottom of it. Add more EA into the honey containing tube and repeat step 3.
5. Repeat 4 until all saturated acetone has been dropped and the honey is all collected at the bottom! Grab that honey with heavy EA smell and dissolve into polar solvent and oven dry it, collect the `cleaned-up` honey and freeze it.
6. The reserved supernatant fractions may be oven dried and whatever comes out of it may be added to more acetone and 3 to 4 repeated, this will eventually grab most if not all of the Malic DMT while the excess malic acid stays in the 40:60 Acetone:EA solution. In fact, if you dry that solution you should get your excess malic acid back.

This has been tested a few times and it works well. But it is far from optimal. It was discovered by trial and error and very little experimentation has been done to optimize it. I wonder if loaded Acetone into EA might precipitate other forms of DMT, like citric, ascorbic or fumaric.
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I hope this is a good contribution to the Nexus Community. It has been a wonderful and educative journey for all of my being in the last 5 years or so of me following this communal effort. Thanks Nexians!

 

[Nydex]

That's pretty dope! Well done! Would be cool to see an in-depth content analysis of a sample of this.

 

[_Trip_]

This has been tested a few times and it works well. But it is far from optimal. It was discovered by trial and error and very little experimentation has been done to optimize it. I wonder if loaded Acetone into EA might precipitate other forms of DMT, like citric, ascorbic...

The lazy alkaloid salting thread (and there's another thread) has a bit of information on this, we trialed a lot of solvent and acid combos to precipitate harmala and dmt salts that would be compatible for e-juice. Some salt forms had been well documented on nexus already others were newly reported.

 

[Ruffles]

I follow the threads. From that I would guess that citrate DMT and malate DMT are equivalent and everything in here might work with citric instead of malic acid.

 

[Loveall]

How did you vape the dmt malate? What % in PG/VG? Vape power?

 

[_Trip_]

Didn't we experiment with a few mixes of malate loveall? And eventually found it had poor solubility?

 

[Transform]

Nice experimentation, thanks for doing and sharing!

Nomenclatural pedantry alert: the correct form of address for this (group of) salt(s) is "DMT malate" rather than "malic DMT" or "malate DMT" but the message remains clear.

I wonder if this would crystallise under any circumstances - the stoichiometry seems quite flexible, and I suspect this contributes to its gooey nature. There seems to be a hint that the 1:1 salt (the bimalate in ye olde chem speak) might solidify a fair bit if one were to get the proportions right. But what do I know - it could be a continuum since DMT salts veer towards being ionic liquids (or self-eutectic, or something - Occam's razor says hygroscopic ), or there could be something daft like a 1:2 DMT:malic
acid ratio before it solidifies. Excuse my freeform Saturday afternoon ramblings.

Main thing is I'm on the lookout for a salt that might crash in any way from vodka (37% abv) solution. Sometimes the brain must go floppy to act like a net.

 

[Ruffles]

How did you vape the dmt malate? What % in PG/VG? Vape power?

I have an RDA atomizer with a single homemade clapton coil at 0.51 ohms resistance. It has a silica wick instead of cotton, so I could heat it to any temperature. This atomizer setup is used at 20-30 watts in a geekvape aegis mod for anything I vape in it.

So far, what has been attempted:

- add 5-30 mg of malate honey right on top of the coil while the wick is saturated with 70:30 vg : pg. 5 mg does nothing. 20 mg gives a mild OEV and some visual distortions after 5 mins if I vape it until the wick gets dry without smelling burnt (again the wick itself does not burn, but the stuff in it eventually will). 30 mg hits at 5 min in and gets up to chrysanthemum with closed eyes and definite visual hallucinations at peak but it doesn't last long. It doesn't feel like everything I dropped in gets aerosolized or vaporized and that might be due to my atomizer or something related to how e-vaping works. Compared with smoking-vaping freebase it is weaker and slower and so lasts longer. Very agreeable taste and smell.

- add 30 mg to 250 ul of 70:30 vg : pg. Easily dissolves without heat. Works just like the 20 mg dropped on top of the coil as described above.

- add 30 mg of malate dmt and 30 mg of freebase Gibran Caapi harmala extract into 500 ul or so of 70:30 vg : pH. Harmala turns to salt (as UV light reveals the green fluor) and goes into solution, takes a while and heat helps. The taste is not as agreeable as just malate DMT, still doable. Effects are pretty much the same as above, maybe a little more obvious. This e-changa or e-huasca thing really interests me.

I have not tried to saturate the e-liquid with malate DMT to see how much goes in and stays there, yet. But there is about 50 mg into 800 uL of 70:30 that is in the freezer for weeks and still nothing dropped out, this is not really concentrated, plus it would drop out as the honey and not crystals.

So far, I prefer the drop honey directly on top of the coil way, after all it's a drip atomizer. But I see how a tank atomizer with a higher concentrate liquid would work better... At least wouldn't require me to get my shit together to redrip it.