Mass produced smokable DMT doses from vinegar-DMT solution

[q21q21]

I have been an advocate of liquid storage of DMT for ages because of the accuracy, stability and just that I don't like working with crystals, but the method of vaporizing the liquid and scraping up the DMT has always been something I put up with, but I suppose it could turn off many.

But a couple months ago I was teaching extraction to a friend and stumbled upon a method that requires a little more patience, but much less effort that I thought I'd share.

The materials are:
- freebase DMT dissolved in minimal amount of vinegar, preferably evaporated until it is near turning syrupy, more water can be added if it gets too thick
(Can also be made directly salting DMT from a non-polar solution with vinegar, then concentration)
- Dropper
- Copper mesh with varnish burned off

The procedure is really simple.

1. Make balls out of the copper
2. Drip the same amount of drops on each ball (make a single test ball to figure out how much that should be)
3. Wait 12-24 hours until the liquid has all evaporated
4. Smoke the balls out of any bowl that works for weed or tobacco (doesn't taste like vinegar)

You can see in the picture that like 3 or 4 of them had some leakage, this is likely a very small loss, but I made sure to add an extra drop or 2 to them to compensate.

The balls can be store in a baggie or container and are not too sticky/leaky despite the DMT on them.

Oh, and the reason why my "white DMT" is red is because salting out naptha with vinegar results in that.

 

[Loveall]

Off all the TEKs I've tried from the WIKI, the DMT-acetate-heat-up-to-convert-to-base procedure is the only one I have not been able to replicate. Maybe this will do it, since you heat up and smoke at the same time seems like there are moar chances of success.

I want to complete all the wiki techniques at least once. This one is missing from my collection.

8mg/ml is about 16% concentration, right? When does it turn into an unworkable syrup? Would this work with an electronic vaporizer stone (like the one seen here), or is the temp needed too high to convert the salt to freebase? If it works straight up with an electronic vaporizer stone this could be very convenient for the folks that vape like myself. I worry the temps needed may be too high to deal with the acetate. On the plus side, storage would be good since this is the salt form.

Finally, not sure why we are calling this mass produced. It would be for personal growth or ones health improvement only.

 

[q21q21]

Not sure about the vaporizer, I've never used one.

As for the concentration of the solution, the method I use it to evaporate 15-20 drops, scrape up the goo, measure the mass and calculate the per-drop concentration. Other methods would work fine though. (I redissolve the goo in the same number of drops after to add back to solution)

 

[Loveall]

Ok. I can dissolve some known amount of freebase DMT into vinegar.

Then I can add a few drops on an electronic vape stone. Let that dry.

Then put the vape stone into my electric vaporizer (a crafty). See if it works, max temp is 210C.

If it works great, it would mean not having to evaporate/freeze solvent again.

 

[null24]

I've done this exact thing but dissolved the fbDMT in iso instead of vinegar. I would imagine vaping gar would be pretty nasty.

Iso works very well, evaps clean and leaves no residual nasty.

I make little pipes using eyedroppers and store spice i in ready to use little shooters. I keep the droppers inside their glass jars for safe storage. Plus they look like medicines in my drawer.

 

[Loveall]

I've done this exact thing but dissolved the fbDMT in iso instead of vinegar. I would imagine vaping gar would be pretty nasty.

Iso works very well, evaps clean and leaves no residual nasty.

I make little pipes using eyedroppers and store spice i in ready to use little shooters. I keep the droppers inside their glass jars for safe storage. Plus they look like medicines in my drawer.

Right, the nice thing about Q21Q21's approach above is that you never need to isolate the freebase. I'm just doing a roundabout test (starting with already available FB) to see if electronic vaping of dry acetate works and is pleasant (Q21Q21 mentions no vinegar taste) - sorry if I caused any confusion.

If it works it would change the way I extract, that's for sure.

 

[q21q21]

The concentration and salting process is VERY vinegar-y. Your house will smell of it for a few hours for sure, pretty tame compared to solvents though

All I can say is that in my mini bubbler with a simple glass bowl I taste exactly zero vinegar while smoking.

 

[Jees]

The color of the balls might indicate copper acetate (blue/green). Wikipedia suggests a boiling temp for copper acetate at 240 deg C (464 deg F). I suppose certain vaping conditions (using flames) might reach that temperature in hotspots which would lead to inhalation of copper acetate vapor? I've no idea if concern is relevant.

 

[Loveall]

I've been reading through the old threads on DMT acetate. There's a lot (!)

One theory appears to be that the DMT acetate decomposes with heat, into volatile free base and acetic acid.

DMTacetate (goo) -> DMTfreebase(g) + acetic acid (g)​

Another possibility is that DMT acetate vaporizes with no decomposition and no appearance of freebase, and vaporized salt enters the lungs to produce the effects:

DMTacetate (goo) -> DMTacetate (g)​

How sure are we of what is happening? It seems to me that the second path has a chance to work in an electronic vaporizer (as I don't think an ionic bonds will break below 210C). There is probably water and hidrated salt forms involved in all this too.

 

[Mindlusion]

acetates decompose with heating to form carbonate salts and acetone among other byproducts in a free radical type mechanism, lots of potential for oxidation going on here, so you really don't want to be inhaling free radicals, but you inevitably do anytime you smoke anything.

heating dmt acetate will probably result in giving the products -> acetic acid , acetone, h2o, co2, dmt n oxide, dmt freebase

the the generated carbonates decompose too to give more co2 and probably DMT n-oxide


--


you wont have any salts in the gaseous phase, they will decompose at a far lower energy before they can exist in that ionized state in the vapor phase.

for example, ionic liquids, which are liquid organic salts, contrary to common conception CAN be distilled, but at very low pressures (0.075mmHg) and high temperatures (200-300C). So, yeah, not in this case.

 

[Loveall]

acetates decompose with heating to form carbonate salts and acetone among other byproducts in a free radical type mechanism, lots of potential for oxidation going on here, so you really don't want to be inhaling free radicals, but you inevitably do anytime you smoke anything.

heating dmt acetate will probably result in giving the products -> acetic acid , acetone, h2o, co2, dmt n oxide, dmt freebase

the the generated carbonates decompose too to give more co2 and probably DMT n-oxide

Thanks mindlusion. Sounds a bit too messy. I'm gonna skip the DMT acetate vaporizing attempts then.

Any idea of the temperatures when all these reactions start/happen? Would the ratios of different evaporated products depend on the temperature reached?

 

[Mindlusion]

acetates decompose with heating to form carbonate salts and acetone among other byproducts in a free radical type mechanism, lots of potential for oxidation going on here, so you really don't want to be inhaling free radicals, but you inevitably do anytime you smoke anything.

heating dmt acetate will probably result in giving the products -> acetic acid , acetone, h2o, co2, dmt n oxide, dmt freebase

the the generated carbonates decompose too to give more co2 and probably DMT n-oxide

Thanks mindlusion. Sounds a bit too messy. I'm gonna skip the DMT acetate vaporizing attempts then.

Any idea of the temperatures when all these reactions start/happen? Would the ratios of different evaporated products depend on the temperature reached?

No idea, id guess it would start around 150-200C, you could definitely adjust the ratios, the more controlled, lower temperature the better to avoid the higher decomposition products

 

[Loveall]

acetates decompose with heating to form carbonate salts and acetone among other byproducts in a free radical type mechanism, lots of potential for oxidation going on here, so you really don't want to be inhaling free radicals, but you inevitably do anytime you smoke anything.

heating dmt acetate will probably result in giving the products -> acetic acid , acetone, h2o, co2, dmt n oxide, dmt freebase

the the generated carbonates decompose too to give more co2 and probably DMT n-oxide

Thanks mindlusion. Sounds a bit too messy. I'm gonna skip the DMT acetate vaporizing attempts then.

Any idea of the temperatures when all these reactions start/happen? Would the ratios of different evaporated products depend on the temperature reached?

No idea, id guess it would start around 150-200C, you could definitely adjust the ratios, the more controlled, lower temperature the better to avoid the higher decomposition products

Um... so you think it is worth to try a test with an electronic vaporizer that controls the temperature? Mine goes from 150C to 210C. Sounded a bit messy at first, but acetone isn't really toxic...

 

[Mindlusion]

acetic acid and co2 are both irritating to the lungs, co2 triggers a cough reflex, you could try it, but I can't see it as a useful way for getting a good dose of freebase without more than a little discomfort.

But others (Q21q21) don't seem to find it too discomforting, maybe a waterbong is ideal to make it smoother, remove some of those gaseous products

 

[Jees]

The color of the balls might indicate copper acetate (blue/green). Wikipedia suggests a boiling temp for copper acetate at 240 deg C (464 deg F). I suppose certain vaping conditions (using flames) might reach that temperature in hotspots which would lead to inhalation of copper acetate vapor? I've no idea if concern is relevant.

In addition: to avoid formation of copper acetate, a porous stone would be more inert.

 

[Loveall]

Good point Jess. Copper may not be the best option here. I use these stainless steel pads

Mindlusion, thinking about your info, what if we add excess ammonia to dmt-acetate goo? Apperently, ammonium acetate is volatile at low pressure, could we sublimate it in a home vacuum chamber to leave the freebase?

The tobbaco industry used ammonia to freebase nicotine and make it moar smokable, maybe we can use something liqke that here?

-Follow your favorite extraction
-Final pull with vinegar
-Dry to dmt-acetate goo
-Add mimimal ammonia to get ammonium acetate, excess ammonia, DMT-freebase, water
-Dry under vacuum to remove Ammonium acetate, water, ammonia
-Is freebase left behind?

Thank you.

 

[q21q21]

The color of the balls might indicate copper acetate (blue/green). Wikipedia suggests a boiling temp for copper acetate at 240 deg C (464 deg F). I suppose certain vaping conditions (using flames) might reach that temperature in hotspots which would lead to inhalation of copper acetate vapor? I've no idea if concern is relevant.

Not sure what you mean by blue/green.
I took 2 picture of the balls close up, one with the flash and one without.

As for the products, I personally have not noticed any harsher smoke between scraped up DMT crystals melted on the ball versus DMT acetate goo on it.
I am curious how much of the products are produced, they would be in <10mg range, probably <5mg in a complete smoking of 40mg from some bad grade 12 chemistry back-of-the-envelope math.

Also,I have smoked from stainless scrubbers before, but I was told by a forum post that copper was better a while back. I personally didn't find much a difference though.

 

[Jees]

...Not sure what you mean by blue/green...

According to wikipedia these are copper acetate crystals on a copper wire:

The color is close to yours (the loaded ball).
Looks like black but given circumstances it can also look green/blue.
On the skin one can see blue/green:

I suppose one simply can't avoid having copper acetate when doing vinegar on copper.
Then knowing it boils at 240 degC it got me wondering about it. Maybe the concern is misplaced, I don't know.

 

[Loveall]

Is the change of color from a hydrate forming?

Apparently (per Wikipedia) one can crudely test for CuAcetate with a flame: blue-green glow indicates it is there, no color change would be inconclusive.