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Maximum weight of Lemon Balm per Harmala/Syrian Rue tea/brew?

josboaz

josboaz

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This question is geared towards Harmala-only-brews.


Hello,

I want to know if there are people that mix Harmala with Lemon Balm. somebody told me once that when taking Harmala it can be handy to make a 5gr lemon balm tea and drink it together. Well, I rather mix Lemon Balm straight in the pan for some much-needed alchemy reaction.
The person said it removes the brain fog and reduces the bad taste of Harmala.

I tried it many times, but I'm not quite sure about its effects. To me, it feels like the lemon balm decreases the effects of Harmala. If I only put Harmala the effects are more pronounced. Normally I would make a brew of 20gr/0.70oz Harmala, 700ml water, and cook it in a pan with the lid on top for 35min. At 100C/212F and then filter it and cook it fast at 240C/464F to reduce it to about 160ml. (cup size)

When I incorporate Lemon Balm I would choose the 5gr that was suggested, a few days ago I decided to change it to 2.5gr. I drank half a cup but did not experience the full blast of Harmala.

1.
Does anyone share this observation regards adding Lemon Balm to Harmala or any other herbs (excluding ethogenics)

2.
And what are y'all typical Lemon Balm weights that you guys work with.
 
Yeah Lemon Balm goes together really nicely with the Rue, it does clean it up in terms of bodyload especially because it counteracts the GABA-A inverse agonism of the Rue by raising GABA levels via GABA Transaminase inhibition. All GABAergics (including benzos, alcohol, amanita, likely passion flower and perhaps skullcap and others) will have a similar effect, but ime Lemon Balm is particularly special and ime doesn't dull anything down when used below 4.5 grams, 5 grams is a little too much ime, i recommend 3 to 4 to 4.5 grams at most, usually 3 to 4 grams. It's not that the Lemon Balm reduces the effects of the Rue/Harmalas, but rather it cleans it up because it counteracts the roughness of the bodyload and so it makes the Rue feel gentler/more comfortable and easier to deal with, similarly to the ease of Caapi, whereas Rue in it's raw/natural state can be rather rough and for that reason people seem to usually prefer Caapi over Rue, but i'm a Rue guy personally and we get along great.

You can take the Lemon Balm whenever, if you take it at the same time as the Rue you won't even really feel like you're coming up on the Rue, can barely even notice the Rue as much as without the Lemon Balm (which imo is a good thing because again, it's cleaner, smoother, gentler, more user-friendly, not rough), whereas if you take the Rue first, and say dose the Lemon Balm an hour or more into the Rue, you will notice the Rue's come up starting around 45 minutes in usually and will feel the Rue's GABA-A inverse agonism and such, but if you drink the Lemon Balm then it'll kick in and clean up the Rue.

The Lemon Balm is also handy/useful in reducing the come up intensity of oral DMT, which is what i mainly used it for (as well as to clean up the bodyload of the Rue/Harmalas), and thus makes the oral DMT come up much smoother/gentler and more user-friendly. Which ime, 3 grams of Lemon Balm still lets in some intensity, less than 3 grams like 1.5 to 2 to 2.5 grams lets in even more intensity (same in regard to Rue's effects), but 4 to 4.5 grams cleans things up very nicely and is considered to be a strong dose of the Lemon Balm ime.

Though Lemon Balm is far from the only herb one can mix with this stuff, there's hundreds of thousands of potential plants in Nature that could be used as admixture plants, and Harmalas as well as DMT are very very easily alterable/adjustable depending on what is in the mix with it, so do keep in mind that Harmalas and DMT are extremely malleable and thus can be easily altered in a wide variety of ways even by the addition of a random supplement. Some things can "reduce" the effects, but based on my experiential understanding of the Lemon Balm and Rue/Aya combination, it doesn't so much reduce the effects, as it cleans things up, so there is a difference, but some folks might be confused in that regard because of the seemingly lessened effects, but i assure you, with DMT in the mix, the Rue shines just as strongly/powerfully, just in a much cleaner way, and same with the DMT.

Also, be sure to make the Lemon Balm tea separately from the Rue, don't add it to the Rue while it's boiling. Lemon Balm contains some volatile essential oils/terpenes which will evaporate upon exposure to air or can break down due to too much heat, so you will want to just steep the shredded Lemon Balm leaf in a cup of hot water and covered with a lid for approx 15 to 20 minutes (that's what i do anyways), and then filter/strain it through a coffee filter in a strainer and wring out the plant matter to make sure you get all the tea, then sweeten if desired and drink it either right before/after the Rue or sometime into the Rue.

Also ime it doesn't do anything at all for the taste of the Rue, so i'd definitely recommend drinking the Lemon Balm by itself. But it can help to increase the clarity and aid in mental calmness and bodily relaxation/relaxed nerves, and also has some potential memory enhancing effects although since they're reportedly Cholinergic in nature it's not much different than the Cholinergic effect Rue itself has, but additional Cholinergic synergy can enhance that aspect, perhaps. And it has some other benefits that i'm sure contribute to the overall goodness of the combination. I highly recommend the combo.
 
"Lemon Balm contains some volatile essential oils/terpenes which will evaporate upon exposure to air or can break down due to too much heat"

Thank you for your in depth response!,
Question though recently I started experimenting with creating teas with my heated magnetic stirrer.
What is the maximum temp you would suggest?
 
I'm not sure, i usually just fill up a small cup with water, heat it up in the microwave, add my Lemon Balm, stir, cover and steep, then filter/strain and drink. So whatever temp you think would be fine on the magnetic stirrer, i'd say give it a shot. So long as it's not like boiling and is just hot or warm, it should be just fine.
 
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Mr°Joie said:
Hey guys ! Are you talking about dried leaves or fresh ones ? :)
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I use dried leaves personally, but fresh should work equally as well, though fresh may be a bit more potent, i'm not sure, so you may need a bit less for fresh leaves, i say give it a shot either way. I've only used fresh leaves like a couple or so times, definitely seemed to work well around 2 to 3 grams ime.
 
Sabnock1990 said:
I use dried leaves personally, but fresh should work equally as well, though fresh may be a bit more potent, i'm not sure, so you may need a bit less for fresh leaves, i say give it a shot either way. I've only used fresh leaves like a couple or so times, definitely seemed to work well around 2 to 3 grams ime.
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Lemon balm loses a ton of volatiles on drying, so if the principal active substance in this context is one of the essential oil components (citral, iirc) there would be an impact on potency. However, since it's GABA modulation we're talking about, I have a suspicion we're talking flavonoids though - and here's a nice review of M. officinalis phytochemistry, although it focuses a lot on the antioxidant activity and doesn't reference GABA as such. I've had a quick look and one of the main flavonoids in M. officinalis, luteolin, is listed on wikipedia as being a GABAA receptor positive modulator.

Flavonoid losses on drying will be far less than with the essential oils, so if we assume a 90% moisture content you'll be using around 20 or so grams of the fresh herb - but, while the aroma will be much stronger this way, the availability of the flavonoids for infusion may well be somewhat lower. It may be worth trying a second steeping if the effects are too weak.
 
Yeah back when i had grown some Lemon Balm, the fresh leaves i used were freshly dried, i'm not sure if it lost any essential oil components but it definitely seemed stronger to me at 2 grams than 3 to 4 grams of the dried herb i buy online, but that could just be how it was grown or it could be that dried herb dose lose some sort of potency. I do think some of the volatiles are active though, for sure, but it is likely to be the flavonoids that are important, particularly Rosmarininc Acid from what i've read.
 
Sabnock1990 said:
Yeah back when i had grown some Lemon Balm, the fresh leaves i used were freshly dried, i'm not sure if it lost any essential oil components but it definitely seemed stronger to me at 2 grams than 3 to 4 grams of the dried herb i buy online, but that could just be how it was grown or it could be that dried herb dose lose some sort of potency. I do think some of the volatiles are active though, for sure, but it is likely to be the flavonoids that are important, particularly Rosmarininc Acid from what i've read.
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The flavonoids and phenolics will slowly lose potency through in storage just as the volatiles basically evaporate, it's of course a major factor in shelf-life of herbaceous materials. Anything purchased will practically never be as fresh as home-produced material (assuming you have your drying/preservation methods up to scratch). But indeed, you may have simply lucked in on the gardening side of things!

Pedantic of me to say, but rosmarinic acid isn't a flavonoid - it's a phenylpropanoid depside tannin :D Still, it's a great molecule with various, proven positive effects on cognition. Funny thing here perhaps, even though terpenoids were among the very first substances that kindled my interest in phytochemistry, I still haven't systematically learnt as much as I could have done about their pharmacological properties.
 
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