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MDMA and Changa?

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Fractalyzed

Fractalyzed

Rising Star
I've recently come up on the availability of MDMA and i'd be eager to have a changa session while rolling.

However, the Changa blend i have contains B.Caapi, which as we all know is an MAOI.
I know MAOI+MDMA=serotonin syndrome and several other bad possibilities, but i'm not sure if it applies in this situation for some reason, since it's smoked and not a pharmaceutical MAOI. I'd assume syrian rue is out of the question as well?
I really wanted to have a nice long session (1-2hours) of smoking changa.

Safe? Not Safe? Have people done this without adverse effects? Maybe a low dose of MDMA?

<3
 
Fractalyzed said:
I know MAOI+MDMA=serotonin syndrome and several other bad possibilities,
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You've answered your own question there! Please don't risk it! Why not smoke some freebase instead?
 
I don't know guys. Is it really that big of a deal?
I have done this on a couple occasions and was perfectly fine.
I don't recommend other people doing it, but I did it, and I am still alive.

Honestly I don't know what to make about the whole MDMA + smoked harmala thing.
Has anyone else out there done this and been fine? I think low doses wouldnt be a problem,
but for the sake of harm reduction I don't think I'm supposed to post this....

??
 
Ive done it a bunch of times without problems as has several of my friends, still not recomending anything just throwing my experience of the subject out there.
 
۩ said:
I don't know guys. Is it really that big of a deal?
I have done this on a couple occasions and was perfectly fine.
I don't recommend other people doing it, but I did it, and I am still alive.

Honestly I don't know what to make about the whole MDMA + smoked harmala thing.
Has anyone else out there done this and been fine? I think low doses wouldnt be a problem,
but for the sake of harm reduction I don't think I'm supposed to post this....

??
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SHroomtroll said:
Ive done it a bunch of times without problems as has several of my friends, still not recomending anything just throwing my experience of the subject out there.
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That's why i'm skeptical about how truly dangerous it really is. I'm sure it's been done many times in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe. The question is if these smoked plant MAOIs can really cause these effects, since it seems the understanding of not combining certain drugs with MAOIs is based mainly on the pharmacuetical forms of it; if theres a difference between the pharmaceutical and plant MAOIs, it could possibly mean that one might not be dangerous considering many ppl have had previous experience with this combination.
Or maybe i dont know what im talking about:?
 
I have to admit that i too have smoked changa whilst on MaDMAn. So have quite a few of my friends. We never hit the bong many many times in a row (in one short sitting), but we all have had some lovely experiences smoking medium doses of changa when on MuDMAn. If there is some documented evidence proving how dangerous it is, with examples of people who have had to be hospitalised due to the combo, i would love to see it.

Edit: by saying this i do not recommend others to try it, just in case it is in fact highly dangerous. I really don't want a fellow nexian to kick the bucket due to reading this thread.
 
Fractalyzed said:
That's why i'm skeptical about how truly dangerous it really is. I'm sure it's been done many times in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's safe. The question is if these smoked plant MAOIs can really cause these effects, since it seems the understanding of not combining certain drugs with MAOIs is based mainly on the pharmacuetical forms of it; if theres a difference between the pharmaceutical and plant MAOIs, it could possibly mean that one might not be dangerous considering many ppl have had previous experience with this combination.
Or maybe i dont know what im talking about:?
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No no, that is wrong. The danger of serotonin syndrome is not just because of pharmaceutical MAOIs (usually meaning non-reversible / MAO-B inhibitors), the danger is from ANY MAOI, including reversible MAO-A inhibitors like harmalas (or moclobemide). There have been quite a few people that died because of taking MAO-A inhibitors (orally) to potentiate MDMA experience (One example ) .

Now, regarding smoked MAOIs. Yes I hear you guys have tried it and not had bad experiences, also smoked harmalas are in general smaller doses (though change in mode of ingestion can also make a stronger peak, like with smoked dmt) and maybe it is a bit safer for some people taking certain dosages.... but, is it really worth it, considering you dont really know? I mean, if through one mode of ingestion a mixture can be deadly, do you really think its not better to avoid the same mixture in another mode of ingestion? Its not like there isnt a giant variety of other safe(r) substances and combinations out there!

We've had one user (Observant) had a seizure after smoking changa while on MDMA. He had two seizures before in his life, one also involving harmalas, and one before those two experiences. While it def isnt conclusive, but it does seem to point out that at least to some suceptible people this can be a dangerous combination. Also, notice changa has very variable levels of harmalas (some people add extra, others just have caapi leaves, some caapi leaves have more or less harmalas, etc), so just because in one or other case people have done it successfuly doesnt mean it will always be, maybe one will have higher harmala content, maybe one will be more succeptible to it, etc...

Is it REALLY worth it the risk? Cant you smoke freebase or go for a different combination instead and be safer?
 
MDMA has a half life of around 8-10 hours I think, which means half of it left the body at that point. Personally I would wait at least 24 hours. It might quite possibly be that less is already safe but why risk it, right? Its not like you have a second body/brain to spare :)
 
Quite a few of my acquaintances have done it with no negative effects, saying that it was awesome... I for one would not risk it.
 
We've had one user (Observant) had a seizure after smoking changa while on MDMA. He had two seizures before in his life, one also involving harmalas, and one before those two experiences. While it def isnt conclusive, but it does seem to point out that at least to some suceptible people this can be a dangerous combination. Also, notice changa has very variable levels of harmalas (some people add extra, others just have caapi leaves, some caapi leaves have more or less harmalas, etc), so just because in one or other case people have done it successfuly doesnt mean it will always be, maybe one will have higher harmala content, maybe one will be more succeptible to it, etc...
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Yes my Changa back then was very high in Harmalas.

This summer i have had my 4th seizure involving only very pure MDMA (about100mg) and Cannabis, during the comedown -
this made me lose my interest in MDMA use altogether as it seems to trigger seizures now.

Still not completely sure what to make of this , but i would advise against this type of combination.
(MDMA+RIMA/MAOI)
(OT: for harm reduction i also wouldnt advise to mix MDMA with Phens such as Mescaline and 2cx ..and MDMA with other Amphetamines)
 
Even though i have had this combo a few times with no ill effects i too advise people against it. When i hear of people selling changa in clubs it makes me sad, as it seems like people don't care much about their fellow man. Only the other week a friend told me he met some girl at a psytrance party who was selling changa and was supposedly a member of this forum. Not cool!
 
endlessness said:
MDMA has a half life of around 8-10 hours I think, which means half of it left the body at that point. Personally I would wait at least 24 hours. It might quite possibly be that less is already safe but why risk it, right? Its not like you have a second body/brain to spare :)
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I definitely agree! Waiting a bit only makes the experience more exciting anyway :)
 
You can mix mescaline and harmalas because it doesn't have an amphetamine group. I've done this in high doses and been totally fine with no ill effects.

I think changa when the MDMA wears off would be totally fine but I wouldn't advise it during the peak or shortly afterward.
 
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