Mescaline extraction with Limonene, NaOH and HCl

[Explorateur]

According to what I read on this thread : The Mescaline Extraction Thread - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I was thinking of this protocol (largely inspired from Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate - The Psychedelic Experience - Shroomery Message Board) :

Step 1 – Extraction: (Base / Non-Polar) :

Mix 300 grams NaOH into 300 ml cold water, stirring constantly. Let cool. Pour into jug.
Add 100 grams dried powdered cactus to the jug. Mix well.
Add 1 liter limonene to the jug. Shake and roll to mix well.
Mix occasionally over the next 24+ hours as the lye breaks down the cactus.
Allow enough time for separation into layers before proceeding to the next step.

Step 2 - Salt: (Acid / Polar) :

Prepare acidic solution by adding 60 ml of water and 7 ml of 30% HCl solution to the limonene. Mix thoroughly.
Collect top limonene layer from the jug, putting the limonene into a new jar.
Add the prepared acidic water to the limonene jar.
Put the lid on the limonene jar and shake it up a few times. Wait a couple minutes to settle.
Collect bottom water layer using a long dropper, putting the water into the evaporation dish.
Return limonene to the cactus solution and mix for another 24 hours.
(Optionally, you can add 1 Tbsp NaOH to the jug after the third extraction.)
Complete 5 extractions over 5 days to use all of the water.

Step 3 - Evaporation:

Pour liquid into a flat-bottomed glass dish under a fan in a low humidity/mild temp environment. After a few days, scrape the residue from the dish and powder using a razor blade. The powder will continue to dry over the next few days. Makes 3-10 doses depending on potency of cactus and dosage desired.

So I've performed the first step of this protocol, and the first pull gave me tiny sticky and brown paste, but no impure crystal what I've expected.

Do you think there's something wrong in the modified protocol ?
If there is, does anybody know an efficient extraction protocol with these 3 main chemicals (limonene, NaOH, and HCl)?

 

[Michal_R]

Did you try to clean your product in Acetone / IPA?

 

[Explorateur]

Not yet, I don't know if I have to perfom the end of the extraction or not.
In fact, I'm bit surprise of the poor yield of the first pull.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

It's probably fine. Your first pull or two will be the dirtiest. I have been doing almost the same process, myself. I've found that the first pulls are the dirtiest, then there's a nice peak where the pulls are almost clear, then the yield of each pull starts decreasing, and no more crystals form.

Another thing, you won't get pretty sharp crystals from this. They'll be flat, smooth, and not very intricate. That's just how Mesc. HCl does it's thing.

And as for yield, I can't say for sure about limonene, as I've never used it, but at least with xylene mescaline is not very soluble in it. It's taken about 6 pulls off of my latest batch before I started noticing diminishing yields from each individual pull.

Also, you may just have weak cactus. It's pretty common. When you get a good one, be sure to cultivate it! There is a difference between the predominant cultivar, and less common, often stronger ones. You can read about it here. Not all PCs are totally weak, but they tend to be on the lower end.

 

[Explorateur]

Thanks a lot for you feedback.
I forgot to mention the cactus I used is Trichocereus Peruvianus chips I bought online.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Ah, Peruvianus seems to be a bit more consistent, from what I've read. That does seem like a low yield, now.

Try adding more NaOH to your mix. When you get it basic enough it will likely turn a more reddish brown tint. I've found it needs quite a bit of base, for probably a couple reasons. The more base you put in, the more fluid the mix will become. It breaks down the slime and plant cells. Also, the more basic it is, the more the mescaline will be pushed into the limonene. After each pull it's a good idea to add a bit of NaOH, too.

 

[Journeymann]

Another thing, you won't get pretty sharp crystals from this. They'll be flat, smooth, and not very intricate. That's just how Mesc. HCl does it's thing.

Hey ya guys... I just got my first HCI xtals from Kashs a/b tek for examples.

The picts are --> Here :twisted:

 

[The Day Tripper]

It's probably fine. Your first pull or two will be the dirtiest. I have been doing almost the same process, myself. I've found that the first pulls are the dirtiest, then there's a nice peak where the pulls are almost clear, then the yield of each pull starts decreasing, and no more crystals form.

Another thing, you won't get pretty sharp crystals from this. They'll be flat, smooth, and not very intricate. That's just how Mesc. HCl does it's thing.

And as for yield, I can't say for sure about limonene, as I've never used it, but at least with xylene mescaline is not very soluble in it. It's taken about 6 pulls off of my latest batch before I started noticing diminishing yields from each individual pull.

Also, you may just have weak cactus. It's pretty common. When you get a good one, be sure to cultivate it! There is a difference between the predominant cultivar, and less common, often stronger ones. You can read about it here. Not all PCs are totally weak, but they tend to be on the lower end.

QFT. Especially the part about brown goo/dirty yeilds with hcl salting. Happens every time with limo/5% hcl when i extract.

I then collect all my pulls, assume theres some water in the goo, bake it at 250F for an hour, then put it in a glass jar with silica packets, sodium sulfate, and magnesium sulfate.

After its completely dry, wash with dry acetone a few times, re-x it by dissolving in water and evaping, wash with acetone again.

You can stop there with a light tan powder that is reallly nice stuff, or if you want to go all out, get some dry ethanol, or methanol if you can be safe/smart, and heat it to near boiling with an electric element/water bath. Can't stress saftey enough here, boiling dry alcohols are extremely flammable, do it outside. Even a static charge arcing to ground off your finger could ignite the vapors under certain conditions.

Anyway, once your dry alcohol is simmering, dissolve your washed mescaline hcl's in it, and cap it with an airtight lid, then cool, and finally release the vacuum from letting it cool before popping it in the freezer.

Thats going to get you big shards of mesc hcl. Very pure mesc. hcl, with no taste, and almost white/transparent if you do it right. But its a pain in the ass/dangerous, and your bound to lose some yield.

 

[Kash]

Well I am a little confused. You said you only performed the first step? So you mixed water, NaOH, cacti, and limonene. Then seperated the limonene and you just evaporated that? Or did you do an acid salting on it and evaporated that? It would help to explain more what you did.

Because if you just evaporated the limonene of course you are going to get a sticky paste since the mescaline is in freebase form still + limonene does not evaporate cleanly.

 

[Explorateur]

Oh no, sorry for the confusion. I should use 'I've performed the first pull". You're right when I read myself, it isn't clear enough.

I was here (Step 2) ->

Collect bottom water layer using a long dropper, putting the water into the evaporation dish.

And then, wait the evaporation complete and stop.

By the way, I guess evaporating almost 1 litre of limonene will give more residues than my picture, isn't it ?

 

[Kash]

Well the tek looks ok so if you performed all of the steps and mixed the solution thoroughly during the extraction, then you likely just have some weak cactus unfortunately that resulted in low yield. :/ Its ok to have a sticky end product, that can be cleaned up with acetone or MEK.

 

[antichode]

Yeah that looks normal for limonene and HCL without proper titration.

Acetone will clean it up

One thing you can do is let the cacti base mixture slake for a while before adding your solvent, it seems to be more effective that way and I wouldn't be surprised if thats hurting your yield?

 

[ipumaestro]

for the amount youre working with why not just go for a tea/simpler means of preparation?

 

[Explorateur]

for the amount youre working with why not just go for a tea/simpler means of preparation?

I read in some places, the mescaline experience is not the same than the cactus experience.
I wanted to experiment it by myself.

So I've performed 7 pulls, the result appearance was almost the same every time, just the quantity was different.
I've performed 2 cold anhydrous acetone wash. The product wasn't sticky, but still very brown.

And the yield was... 55mg.

I think I've got a weak cactus, so I give up from now.

 

[Kash]

Try finding some fresh bridgesii, it very rarely dissapoints.

 

[The Day Tripper]

for the amount youre working with why not just go for a tea/simpler means of preparation?

I read in some places, the mescaline experience is not the same than the cactus experience.
I wanted to experiment it by myself.

So I've performed 7 pulls, the result appearance was almost the same every time, just the quantity was different.
I've performed 2 cold anhydrous acetone wash. The product wasn't sticky, but still very brown.

And the yield was... 55mg.

I think I've got a weak cactus, so I give up from now.

How much did it weigh before washing?

Did you attempt to dry the goo before washing?

I think there's some hydroscobic alkaloids/substances in these brown/red pulls people seem to get off cactus some times. If its too wet, the mescaline will use that water to become soluble in the slightly hydrated acetone.

Why i advocate drying the brown/red goo as much as possible before washing. But that's just my experience with bridgesii/limo/dilute hcl acid base extractions. You may just have weak cactus like you say, or something else in the extraction process isn't working out right.

If your losing alot of weight in washing, make sure the prewashed yield is dry. If its not, you will lose a significant amount of mescaline. Its a good practice to get in the habit of, weighing before/after washing to get some reference on loss of yield, or impurities removed.

 

[Explorateur]

OK I see what you mean. It is true, that when I put one of my pull in the oven, it became very dry. I could scrap it very easily with the razor blade, and even could make a powder with it.
I leave it during one night, and it became oily again.

... I didn't weight the oily extract before the wash, but I didn't loose that much.