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Mescaline Fumerate Questions

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G

Gone-and-Back

Rising Star
while searching the forum and wiki, I have noticed that there is really no information on the fumerate salt of mescaline. Why is this?

I will be processing a small section of my bridgesii soon, and was thinking of making it into a fumerate salt as I do not like the idea of using HCL or Sulferic acid. However, I can't seem to find any info on its solubility properties or anything else. It doesn't seem that anyone has posted anything about this salt either. Can mescaline not form a fumerate salt for some reason? If not, why? If it can is it just inferior to the other salts?

If it can form fumerates, can these be crystallized via dual solvent methods as the sulfate salt can?
 
Sure it works perfect.

Xylene/toluene or limonene and FASA or FASI work perfect, my preffered way of crystallizing mescaline.

I'm sure there are a couple of threads about it somewhere, but anyways yes, it works well.
 
I actually found one, after I realized I have been spelling fumarate wrong this whole time :lol:

So basically just boil fresh cuttings, base, pull with np, add fasi drop by drop to precip mescaline fumarate and decant right? Or use fasw and separate, then evap and clean with something like acetone?

Is there a way to collect the other alkaloids that are present via these methods? I know with acetates you can then evap the acetone and retrieve the extra alkaloids, but I feel it won't be that simple with fumarates since the fumaric acid also dissolves in the acetone. Is there something that would then be able to dissolve the other alks, leaving the excess fumaric acid behind? Or could another mini a/b be done after evaporating the acetone via a dry tek?
 
How much is "a small section"? You may be underwhelmed with the amount of pure crystal you end up with…Unless your small section is like 3 or 4 feet. if it were me, Id just make a tea and drink that. The whole Bridgesii package is really quite different compared to the other Trichs.
 
Gone-and-Back, yeah you got the idea right. I preffer FASI/FASA to FASW, but each one to their own, it all works well.

As for "other alkaloids", maybe someone who paid attention to analysis and trout's books can help me out but, are there really other alkaloids in any significant quantities in these cact? All the cact I tested so far had only mesc as main alkaloid and maybe only traces of something else, so regardless of how you extract you'll get pretty much the same.
 
endlessness said:
Gone-and-Back, yeah you got the idea right. I preffer FASI/FASA to FASW, but each one to their own, it all works well.

As for "other alkaloids", maybe someone who paid attention to analysis and trout's books can help me out but, are there really other alkaloids in any significant quantities in these cact? All the cact I tested so far had only mesc as main alkaloid and maybe only traces of something else, so regardless of how you extract you'll get pretty much the same.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many dozens of alkaloids comprising a combined concentration which is significant. As for the psychoactivity, I'm not sure how significant the difference is having not experimented myself.
 
Can you quote me any source or paste some of the analysis results here , so we know what quantity and what alkaloids are being talked about and can therefore speculate with a bit more grounding ?

Thanks :)
 
endlessness said:
Gone-and-Back, yeah you got the idea right. I preffer FASI/FASA to FASW, but each one to their own, it all works well.

As for "other alkaloids", maybe someone who paid attention to analysis and trout's books can help me out but, are there really other alkaloids in any significant quantities in these cact? All the cact I tested so far had only mesc as main alkaloid and maybe only traces of something else, so regardless of how you extract you'll get pretty much the same.
Click to expand...


:thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up:

so little fact about the 'other alkaloids' effects and contributions to the overall effect of cacti,
and a whole lotta subjective speculation being passed around!
 
You've tried both extracted mescaline and a tea Endlessness (and dg), are you really saying there is little difference? They seem like almost different drugs to me. At least for the first few hours. I get what your saying though, it is just my opinion so it shouldn't be taken as gospel.

failed message edit below...
 
Yeah, I've tried many different sources, including synthetic mescaline, pedro tea, whole peyote, achuma resin, etc.. And to me it's all the same golden velvety mescaline bliss.

Obviously thats just my experience though, there are many possibilities. Maybe it's always just mescaline so differences are self-suggestion or natural variability of the substance/metabolism itself. Maybe most cases its just mescaline but some isolated examples do have significant amount of other alkaloids (which may or may not have effects). Maybe often there are other alkaloids influencing the trip.

So far though, based on my experience and the few analysis Ive done, I'd be willing to bet that it's just mescaline, or at least in the overwhelming majority of cases. I got no vested interest either way though, if someone would show me otherwise I'd be happy to change my views on this.
 
Just thought I would update this.

I am in the process of performing an extraction on 4 feet worth of Bridgesii. Unfortunately I did not get to measure the weight, as my scale only goes up to 500g and there was A LOT of cactus chunks. Would of had to weigh probably 10 different times and add it all together, not to mention how slimy my scale would become...

I just basified the cacti tea with lye, and have a 600ml solution. I think this is as far as I will go tonight, let it sit over night and give time for total conversion to the freebase form.

Tomorrow I will perform pulls with D-Limonene, and then salt directly from solution with FASA. I will probably add a very small amount at first, and let whatever crashes out settle on the bottom in the corner of the jar. Ill place it in the freezer for a little to speed up the process of it adhering to the glass jar. After a few hours, Ill add more FASA and repeat. I am hoping that this initial crystal ''seed'' will enable the rest of what crashes out to just attach to this original cluster and keep forming a larger and larger cluster of crystals that are all stuck to each other. My hopes are this will make it easier to pour off the solvents without disturbing the one big cluster of crystals.

I will probably pour a little more acetone into the jar once the original FASA and D-Limonene have been poured off, just to make sure there is no fumaric acid contamination from the freezing steps. I assume during the freezing some will crash out of the acetone. I hope it would re-dissolve upon returning to room temp, but might as well play it safe.

Ill then knock the crystal free from the glass jar, and dump it out onto a baking dish to further dry. If any crystals remain in the jar, I will dissolve them into a minimal amount of boiling water and pour this into the same baking dish to evaporate along with the rest of the mescaline fumarate.

I am very excited to see my end results, and to try them out. This will be my first time with mescaline and I can not wait! Just in time for a music festival next weekend too 8)

Edit:
Just to make sure, the total volume of FASA added to the D-Limonene should equal the same volume of the D-Limonene pulls, correct? I just want to make sure I am adding enough.
 
just need to add enough acid to make your saltings a neutral ph
no need to guess about the correct amounts if you have ph papaers...
 
I did not have test papers, and I found my electronic tester after I already added everything. The pH was between 3 and 4.

The limonene and FASA mixture formed a large amount of precipitates, most of which I was able to filter out of the solution with a funnel and coffee filter. However, some of the precipitate passed through the filter. I am not sure how I will get this portion out. Maybe Ill try to filter it again with a new filter, or buy some lab grade filter papers.

The stuff that was filtered out was dried under a fan, and has been scraped up. I am pretty sure that it does not have fumaric acid in it, as it is somewhat bitter. It also tastes somewhat like oranges, I take it this is because I used limonene and it is not all evaporated. I imagine it would be near impossible to get all of it out, since it evaporates at a much slower rate and higher temperate then the other solvents we are use to using. Its food grade however, so this doesn't worry me at all.

Anyways, what I wanted to ask is what are the chances of this end product being contaminated with fumaric acid? The method I used was salting directly out of the limonene solution with FASA, which caused everything to crash out. Is there a chance that the fumaric acid that was in the acetone also crashed out when mixing it with the mescaline saturated limonene? I don't see why it would, but acetone and limonene are completely miscible, so I am unsure if that would change the solubility of the fumaric acid in the combined solution.

Thanks for any help in advance. Unfortunately I don't have the time to actually test it out by taking a dose. My plan was to test it this coming weekend at a festival, by taking maybe 100-150mg. However, since I am unsure if it worked correctly, I am thinking of just bringing some tabs or mushrooms instead. Would rather have something I am certain of instead of something that may not work.
 
No you wont get excess fumaric acid. You can test this easily by mixing FASA to pure limonene, nothing crashes out.

You should add more FASA to your limonene, and see if more alkaloids crash out. Wait a couple of days just to be sure.

You can always wash your fumarates with cold acetone to remove the limonene from it. Make sure the acetone is not wet or warm otherwise it might dissolve some of the fumarates.

Congrats!
 
Sweet, so what I have is definitel y mesc fumarate.

I think I will leave it as is. I don't mind it being a little waxy and smelling of oranges.

I still have the precipitate jar, and there is a lot more in there. It was too fine and passed through the filter though. Need to get some lab grade filter papers to get the rest of it. Or maybe upon sitting it will clump together and be easier to filter out.

Im excited to give it a try

Any recommendations on dosage of the fumarate salt? Im thinking 125-150mg for my first attempt to get a feel for it.
 
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